Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Lucasade on July 26, 2017, 02:41:33 pm
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The drawknife I originally bought is impossible to sharpen - I guess in my ignorance I bought one that had been de-tempered by the seller overusing a grinding wheel. Anyway, I now have a bit of money and would be grateful for any tips/recommendations? :BB
I'm in the UK and probably only in the market for second hand rather than new.
Thank you as always.
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I like to use really old draw knives that I get from estate auctions or antique stores.
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I have to agree with Clint. I have used new and antique knives, Ill take an antique any day and twice on Sundays.
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E-bay, boot fairs. maybe see if there's anyone who could harden and temper your current one?
Del
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Does not compute. De-tempering would make it easier to sharpen. It just would not hold its edge as long.
I use a medium stone to sharpen my drawknife. No way I would use a grinder. No way.
Follow the bevel with a circular motion. Take your time. Some things cannot be rushed.
Turn the knife over. Place the stone flat against the knife and once again use a circular motion. Flat against the back. Flat. :)
Jawge
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Those old draw knives will usually sharpen best with a file. That's how they are designed. If a cheap file will cut it is too soft but a good file should be able to put an edge on it. I like the old knives much better.
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Really old ones, that auction site has loads, but there's a wonderful second hand tool shop near Axminster in Colyton called The Tool Box and there's Bristol Design near Bristol infirmary sells really nice hand tools made by them and a shop full of old hand tools. No doubt there are others but those are the two I have used
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I would only use a file if there are nicks. All I have is old knives. I use stones on quality blades.
Jawge
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George they were specifically designed to be file sharpened. You can put an edge you can shave with in just a few swipes with a good file. The old woodworkers liked to be able to sharpen them quickly while working on their shaving horse.Some of the newer ones use harder metals and they don't hold an edge near as well because they microscopically chip away the fine edge.
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If I have time I use a granite sharpning block with diferent grit sand papers learned to sharpen plane blades like that years ago and works great with draw knifes or resurfacing scrapers if in a hury I use a stone locked in a vice I flatten the back first and stone the bevel to a burr and use a old barbers strap with jewlers rouge to work the burr off.
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Im going to try the file method Steve I have a old one I picked up at the antique store I havent touched yet never new about filing them I posted at the same time as you and didnt see your post tell after ,sharpening tools can be theropy like chasing a ring to me some times.
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LOL, Steve, at 69 I think I, too, qualify as an old timer. :) Jawge
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Jawge, you are a true Classic ...IMHO
DBar
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De-tempering would make it easier to sharpen. It just would not hold its edge as long
I agree, unless it is really soft and the edge just rolls too easy.
chipping often happens if the edge is too fine (low angle) for the temper or steel. it can be felt by dragging the edge over a fingernail. the good part is that it's getting hard so a steeper sharpening angle might do the trick
you might consider a rehardening and retempering if its decent High carbon steel, ( i.e. older quality name brand)
a newer "economy" tool might not respond as well if it was mfg from lower carbon steel that was induction hardened.
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Thank you for all the replies. By 'impossible to sharpen' I meant impossible to keep an edge that will do any more than polish the wood I'm trying to work. I've tried both stone and my Stihl chainsaw file to sharpen it - I sharpen my other tools (knives, axes, lawnmower blades, chainsaw) and they keep their edge for a good time. I agree that some things shouldn't be rushed but I also find that a regularly used blade usually just needs a few strokes to bring it back up to properly sharp.
It is an old blade that was bought off the auction site, and it has turned into the main reason I'm not making progress with bows as it's just too frustrating trying to use it when everyone else seems to be able to turn half a log into a rough bow in a couple of hours!
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Without knowing the steel type and how it has been treated we are all guessing to a degree ;)
Old tools are great (in general) but if the back isn't flat or there is a hint of rust on it then I wouldn't waste my time.
There are plenty of great quality modern drawknifes as well as poor cheap ones. The latest modern steels are superb and purer than some of the older steels. It all depends on the final user and what they want from a steel. D2, 440, CPMN S35vn are all wonderful 'modern' steels for edged tools.
Try looking at Dictums website. Excellent service and a highly knowledgeable staff.
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LOL, Steve, at 69 I think I, too, qualify as an old timer. :) Jawge
Now, you kids, stop squabbling, else I'll tell your Moms! ;)
Del
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It is an old blade that was bought off the auction site, and it has turned into the main reason I'm not making progress with bows as it's just too frustrating trying to use it when everyone else seems to be able to turn half a log into a rough bow in a couple of hours!
Just a thought, and slightly off topic, but, I invested some time and effort in re-profiling an old hatchet (it cost me £9 including post), taking it from a splitting edge to a carving edge, and I often find that once I'm done roughing out with that, I can go straight to hand planes and my Shinto without risking the tear-out that I frequently get from a draw-knife
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Del, I wish you could tell her. She surely would set me straight. Besides we are not squabbling we are discussing. :) Jawge
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Without knowing the steel type and how it has been treated we are all guessing to a degree ;)
Without wishing to be rude to everyone, I know what's wrong with my current knife - it doesn't hold an edge and doesn't take off any wood. I bought it when I knew a lot less than I know now and got a dud. That's why I'm looking for a new one...
Try looking at Dictums website. Excellent service and a highly knowledgeable staff.
Just had a glance there, looks like some good options so I'll have a proper look later.
Just a thought, and slightly off topic, but, I invested some time and effort in re-profiling an old hatchet (it cost me £9 including post), taking it from a splitting edge to a carving edge, and I often find that once I'm done roughing out with that, I can go straight to hand planes and my Shinto without risking the tear-out that I frequently get from a draw-knife
I had some success using my billhook to rough a laburnum stave out, but then I split my knuckle open with it at work so my wife made me get rid of it :-\
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It sounds like the previous owner ruined the hardness of the blade by grinding on it. Might be time to find another draw knife.
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Second hand stores and flea markets may have them. I prefer the old knives.
I think it is because I like to ponder about how and who used them.
One I inherited from my father of blessed memory. I never saw him use it but I sure have and it keeps a good edge with a little touch up with a stone.
The other I bought at a second hand store ($10). I cleaned it up with steel wool and removed nicks with a file. Then, I sharpened with a stone as i described way back. I also bought a Swedish push knife in pristine condition ($6) at a second hand store.
You never know what you will find.
When I make my trade points I get them sharp, heat until red hot and quench them in motor oil.
I then re-temper them in my toaster oven when my wife is not looking. I put them in at around 350 for 20 minutes and leave them there until they cool.
I sharpen them more and continually during the season.
You could skip the heating and quenching and retemper. You would likely need more than 20 minutes because of the larger size involved. Of course, you would have to remove the handles.
I am not a blacksmith but that is what I do to my trades. Research more on line for your edification.
There's thousands of years experience on this site but you have to be patient with us.
Jawge
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There's thousands of years experience on this site but you have to be patient with us.
Jawge
I hope I haven't offended anyone - the wealth of experience on here is one of the main reasons I know a lot more now than I did then!
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You haven't offended me. :) Jawge
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Just in case, a new one is back on your wishlist, and you may like the mini-drawknive with crooked handles by the Swiss company Pfeil ... go for it. I really love mine, and so do plenty bowyers I've met. It is actually quite popular over here in Germany.
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Just in case, a new one is back on your wishlist, and you may like the mini-drawknive with crooked handles by the Swiss company Pfeil ... go for it. I really love mine, and so do plenty bowyers I've met. It is actually quite popular over here in Germany.
Is that a single or double bevel knife? I used a double bevel Swedish knife for most of my life and one time I couldn't find it and started using one of my single bevel knives. I never went back.
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Badger - I was curious about that drawknife; Amazon and Woodcraft sell them over here. It's a single bevel drawknife; looks nice, pricey compared to flea market swap shop drawknives that most of us have. :BB
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Gifford, I haven't found any draw knives that I like better than the old style we see on e ebay and flea markets. Once I adjusted to it I like them better than my Swedish model.
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I have a technique that my dad taught me for re hardening chisels ,heat the blade up tell it glows and immediately shove the blade in to a bucket of sand it starves the oxygen and allows slow cooling works on chisels don't see why it wouldn't work on a draw knife but never tried .
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I would think slow cooling would anneal the steel and make it softer. You want to quickly cool it off to harden it.
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He claimed quick cooling made the steel brittle that it had to cool slow with no air I have used it a bunch on old chisels & works really don't no the science behind it he was a old old school farmer carpenter & just took his word for it and used it !
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I looked heat treating up and your right Clint about cooling fast but I think it has to do with the time & temp of cooling with the anneling there cooling in oven over long period of time I dont want to put out the wrong info but the sand method makes the cheisels harder then they where I see guys on there. cooling in oil & then re baking for treating , interesting topic !
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When I harden a knife I quench it in oil to cool it down rapidly. It is hard but brittle. I do 2 tempering cycles in an oven to soften it up a bit so its still hard but not as brittle. I'm no expert on the topic but I've done a hand full of knives like that and it has worked out good. I think the old farmers knew tricks and secrets to making things work. Most of that information will be lost to time.
Sorry to hijack the draw knife post.
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When I harden a knife I quench it in oil to cool it down rapidly. It is hard but brittle. I do 2 tempering cycles in an oven to soften it up a bit so its still hard but not as brittle. I'm no expert on the topic but I've done a hand full of knives like that and it has worked out good. I think the old farmers knew tricks and secrets to making things work. Most of that information will be lost to time.
Sorry to hijack the draw knife post.
Learning some basic heat treating is a good thing to know. I have had friends who make real nice looking knives really drop the ball when it comes to the tempering and heat treating process. My son has one of the those element reading tools that can identify all the different alloys in metals or anything else. I think I will have him run it across my draw knives and check out the differences in the alloys.
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Badger, have him test the blade and the spine if he can. I have an old one that looks to be 2 different steels forge welded together.
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Yep those old depretion era old timers didnt have many resorces so had to find what worked probably a ton of things lost to time.