Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simson on June 20, 2017, 02:53:45 pm
-
I have watched the other thread here with interest:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=60844.0
I think a wide limbed osage is possible, if it is short enough. Two things have to be saved, the mass and the length of the lever. Saving mass can be achieved by narrowing the outers and short leverage of course by short limbs. So let's see ...
I had a nice clean and more or less straight piece of osage 56” long. My idea was do make a bendy handle bow with fully 28" draw length.
It was thick enough for a belly split (Plan B), what you see here is the back split. It is rough cleaned up. The belly split is not as wide of course, I lay it beside.
So here is the back split:
Back
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%201%20von%2072_zpsiaoehsm1.jpg)
Belly
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%202%20von%2072_zpseniz1o5f.jpg)
Side
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%203%20von%2072_zpsf90hqp2b.jpg)
Dimensions, relative thin rings, fat heavy wood, usable width 2”.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%204%20von%2072_zpswfuu7b6q.jpg)
-
yes you can do it,, (-S
-
I'll be watching.
-
Looks like a nice piece of wood, if anyone can pull off a nice bow from that you can. ;)
Pappy
-
Looking forward to this thread (-P
-
Great job of getting that split like that.
-
Simon I don't want to hijack your thread but I have some input. Check out this one I made some time back. Wide limbs are easily doable. Curious to see what you come up with.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,38050.msg504634.html#msg504634
-
That is sweet Jon.I don't know how I missed that one.
-
Yes! This will be an interesting thread! (-P (-P (-P
-
Simon I don't want to hijack your thread but I have some input. Check out this one I made some time back. Wide limbs are easily doable. Curious to see what you come up with.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,38050.msg504634.html#msg504634
Hi Jon, now this is a sweet bow. Like Ed, I missed it somehow.
I'm interested how wide are the limbs.
well, I think the thing is to make an effcient osage bow with wide limbs and no shock. And instead of Jon I will go for a long faded, 2" wide and short recurved design.
Normally I would split that 2" wide thing in two 1" wide and make two bows out of it. But let's see what happens. I have a leftover splinter of another stave, only ⅞" wide. Maybe I find the time to do parallel a narrow ELB stile straight stick - just to compare.
I'm going for a symmetrical bow, marked the middle and the fades. I will rough reduce the width to save work time at ring chasing.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%205%20von%2072_zpsvgbgcroc.jpg)
Working with the drawknife from both sides is a secure strategy
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%206%20von%2072_zpss3enbh6q.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%207%20von%2072_zpsricu2dsh.jpg)
Same procedure at the tips
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%208%20von%2072_zpsch5mefgt.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%209%20von%2072_zpsdjn0ilnp.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2010%20von%2072_zpsemcnf43q.jpg)
Now for the ring chasing, the width is in rough dimensions (eyeballing)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2011%20von%2072_zpsjwgclxe6.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2012%20von%2072_zpsemeboarn.jpg)
This is how the stave looks now:
Back
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2013%20von%2072_zpslmjkzcts.jpg)
Center mark, and handle mark at the sides. The thickness is now 5/8” at handle.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2014%20von%2072_zps7aca9he0.jpg)
I mark sections every 2” with numbers from the fades outwards. Fades are “F”, between fades A – C
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2015%20von%2072_zpsyvfr0pea.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2016%20von%2072_zpss5wze6xs.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2017%20von%2072_zpsk56bu6zm.jpg)
Now the final width can be made easy by comparing the width of the sections on upper with the bottom limb.
Next step is the thickness taper. First I go for a parallel taper from fades outwards. The red line marks a distance of about 6 mm. A second line at the handle area and outer tips in a distance of 8 mm keeps this portions stiff enough for the desired tiller.
I keep all edges sharp, so it is a lot easier to go for the thickness taper
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2018%20von%2072_zpsgbxw69fj.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2019%20von%2072_zpscmseomzu.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2020%20von%2072_zpsutlwchoo.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2021%20von%2072_zpsynywevir.jpg)
-
realllyl nice, I love that shape,, (-P
-
Many, many people will appreciate this build along, Simon.
-
Yep, nothing like a well-photographed build by a top notch (and thorough!) bowyer. Thanks!
-
That looks interesting Simon. The limbs on mine are 1 15/16".
-
I love the way he uses the draw knife, I could never do that,, (SH)
-
This is great Simon. Thank you for bringing us along for the ride. :OK
-
Interesting....To me it looks like a design I've been very curious about.A willow leaf limb design or a short wide limbed recurve.Am I close to the comparable description Simon?My take on this is that if a person can get the maximum work out of a short area of limb to handle the stress on a short bow.It can be pretty efficient.
-
Many, many people will appreciate this build along, Simon.
Chris, please don't expect too much. This will be not a full documented buildalong, I just want to make some pics of the process.
As I'm worker and photographer, the pics are not always done in the best moment/stadium. I'm sure you know it's a different thing to interrupt the workflow and remember to the pics and some notice ...
That looks interesting Simon. The limbs on mine are 1 15/16".
Jon, that's pretty near to 2", sometime I will test out your design also!
I love the way he uses the draw knife, I could never do that,, (SH)
Brad, I've tested about ten or more different models of drawknifes. The one I use now is by far the best for bowwmaking (at least for me), all others are laying around in my shop - the most used only one time. So my favorite drawknife is a French product and I like it razorsharp for every job. Chasing a ring or roughing down to near dimensions, all is much more precise and faster as with other drawknifes. You should try!
Interesting....To me it looks like a design I've been very curious about.A willow leaf limb design or a short wide limbed recurve.Am I close to the comparable description Simon?My take on this is that if a person can get the maximum work out of a short area of limb to handle the stress on a short bow.It can be pretty efficient.
Yep Ed, exactly!
Let's go on.........
Here is how the bow looks now with the rough worked down thickness. The bow still wasn't bent so far. The short recurves were steamed in. I haven't made pics because the process how I do them are shown in several of my 'HowTo's'.
The pencil shows an area which must be corrected. In the side view you see the deflex.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2023%20von%2072_zpsxcnnt8n6.jpg)
In the front view (back of the bow) you can see it must be corrected sideways too.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2024%20von%2072_zpsygya6kfs.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2025%20von%2072_zpsrhxbfotw.jpg)
This is the caul I will use for doing the corrections in one session. And also for inducing some reflex
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2026%20von%2072_zpssxoie7bn.jpg)
Here is the mouth of the caul, where the tip of the bow is secured with wedges
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2027%20von%2072_zpswlyq1epk.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2028%20von%2072_zpsnw04sion.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2029%20von%2072_zpscnnivja7.jpg)
Now the bow is going to be heated up, beginning from the tip to the handle. Clamps and wedges are pressing the bow in the desired shape.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2030%20von%2072_zpsc6fuahpp.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2031%20von%2072_zpslkzpe44q.jpg)
A weight on the other end of the bow brings a constant force for inducing the reflex, and I have my hands free for the heat gun and setting wedges.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2032%20von%2072_zpssdmnykbx.jpg)
-
Thanks Simon this is very cool build !
-
Very cool indeed! When I make a bendy handle bow I narrow the handle area and compensate in thickness like you have done here. I've never done this as dramatically as you have here, but have wanted to. Can't wait to see how it turns out! (-P
-
Very reminiscent of some of the old school flight bows.
-
After both sides are done, the bow looks like this. The perspective is playing tricks, the reflex isn't that high as it seems.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2033%20von%2072_zps3dhzdon7.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2034%20von%2072_zpseogc0i51.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2036%20von%2072_zps52kcvnnt.jpg)
Here is a detail of the tips. I have narrowed them, and need an overlay.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2037%20von%2072_zpscrag90cu.jpg)
A thin piece of buff horn of about only 3mm thick is enough, because I use very thin stings.
The piece is about 3” long, and I will make both overlays out of it.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2038%20von%2072_zpslevhj6gv.jpg)
I thin them out on both sides and cut them in halves.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2039%20von%2072_zpsgcly8cg1.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2040%20von%2072_zpshcf0k3hk.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2041%20von%2072_zpscn44evqa.jpg)
A little flattening the surface of the tips and the tips can be superglued on
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2042%20von%2072_zpsm9hafuo0.jpg)
After that, the bows back can be final sanded, nocks shaped.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2043%20von%2072_zpslq3emkey.jpg)
-
Thank you for doing this Simon. I'm looking at the recurves/reflex. It is long and slow, gradually increasing and then with a little kink at the end. Is there a reason for this shape other than artistic?
-
Thanks for showing your work as you go, Simon! It'll be neat to see what it'll look like at the end. It'll also be interesting to see how much set the limbs take when he starts to tiller it. As of now, it has a similar shape to a Turkish horse bow (not as dramatic reflex and shorter static tips, of course).
-
very nice,, (SH)
-
No Pics from the tillering process as that is shown quite often in other threads.
The bow is a bendy handle bow and the handle is quite thin. Because of more comfort I will build it up a bit. I will do with somme leather leftovers and superglue, the leather is flexible and doesn't stiffen up the handle again.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2044%20von%2072_zpspdgaju4j.jpg)
Some shaping with a file and the next layer can be applied.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2045%20von%2072_zpsyh5zxjwz.jpg)
And after the final shaping
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2046%20von%2072_zpswxdhyrxo.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2047%20von%2072_zpsw3h23goj.jpg)
Some years ago a got an .... (what do you think is that?) foot from a friend, I have saved the bone, the sinew and the skin from the under leg and the toes with the claws. XY have three toes on their feet, one big in middle and two secondaries left and right. I will use the big on the back and the two smaller on the belly side.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2048%20von%2072_zpsympoqsib.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2049%20von%2072_zpsorfx4tio.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2050%20von%2072_zpsiks1zjy7.jpg)
I soaked them for two hours, glued them on with TB3, trimmed them on the overlapping (which wasn't that easy – the skin has rigid horn plates). A tight rubber textile wrapping holds that thing in place til the glue is hardening out.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU/91%20wide%20limbed%20osage%20EMU%20-%2051%20von%2072_zpsoi2o1noj.jpg)
-
Ostrich!
-
Or maybe an Emu?
-
Cassowary, :D all the easy ones are taken.
-
Ostrich only have two toes. Looks more like Emu.
Cassowary are longer.
-
Well, I haven't expected here is a forum of zoologists ....
it is EMU
-
Cool simson..I remember seeing you use sting ray hide before too.I've tried that too.It's textured really nice for a grip.Now people will start using skinned turkey toes on their grips....lol.It's totally possible to do though.The turkey legs would need to be skinned when fresh though.Then dried flat.Skinning the skin from a dried hard state would not work too good.