Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: DC on May 02, 2017, 07:29:21 pm

Title: A Forging Question
Post by: DC on May 02, 2017, 07:29:21 pm
I have a couple of "C" clamps I've had for years. I bent them when I was into cars and they don't line up quite right. They work, but can be awkward. They are good forged clamps. I'm wondering if a forging like that will lose strength if I heat them to straighten them? My gut says yes but I'm hoping no.
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: Greybuff on May 02, 2017, 08:51:50 pm
If they are good tool steel (not Chinese junk) you want to heat to cherry red bend them to how you want them, then heat to cherry red again and quench as fast as you can in motor oil. Let them cool , clean them off w/soap & water and then put them in an oven at 450 degrees for an hour and quench immediately. The first quench hardens them and they become very brittle. The second quench draws the temper and they become a tougher steel and won't break if dropped or struck. I blacksmith and this is how I have heat treated many tools that have taken lots of abuse over the years. I di this to a c-clamp about 2 months ago.
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: Hawkdancer on May 04, 2017, 12:55:52 am
I will throw another question or two  into the thread.  How do you heat, straightened, and otherwise work spring (as in truck springs, etc) steel?  I don't have a forge, or smithing tools.  I'm open to any ideas, may be able to scrounge up an anvil, got a hammer, and a bad hand😀😂
Hawkdancer

Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: DC on May 04, 2017, 12:26:40 pm
In high school, umpty ump years ago, I made a Bowie knife from a small car spring. It was about 1/4" thick. I didn't heat it at all. Just ground it to shape, being careful not to overheat it. It came out real well, took and held an edge. It had a slight bend in it cause it was a spring but you could hardly notice it.
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: bubby on May 04, 2017, 02:35:59 pm
Hawkdancer, a forge is pretty easy to make but you can use a cutting torch if you have access to one. Just cut a chunk of long enough well a little longer than you needthen heat it cherry red and let cool, this will soften the steel, then heat it up and beat it flat. You can then shape it with a grinder and when you get the bevel to about a dime thickness on the edge  heat it up with the torch along the edge going back and forth along the length to get it heated evenly till it is non magnetic and quench in some warm oil, veg oil works fine but it you have to use motor oil were a resperator as the smoke is highly toxic. Then when it has cooled clean it up and put it in the oven or a toaster oven at 450 for 2 hrs and then let cool, this takes the brittle out of the steel. The rest of the sanding dont let it get hot keep dipping it in water and you should be good
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: PatM on May 04, 2017, 02:52:34 pm
A regular old wood fire will heat steel with no trouble.
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: bubby on May 04, 2017, 07:05:54 pm
A regular old wood fire will heat steel with no trouble.
It will pat but you need to add air to get it hot enough to heat treat
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: PatM on May 04, 2017, 09:20:01 pm
Not to disagree but doesn't" Cherry Red come before the Orange? I've never had any trouble making metal even  too hot by just sticking it right in the heart of the coals.
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: bubby on May 04, 2017, 11:19:26 pm
The cherry red is just to make the steel workable Pat. Non magnetic to harden and a magnet is easy to find
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: PatM on May 05, 2017, 07:52:59 am
I know and I've had no trouble reaching that in a hardwood bed of coals. The use of air just seems to accelerate heating.
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: bubby on May 05, 2017, 08:34:05 am
I know and I've had no trouble reaching that in a hardwood bed of coals. The use of air just seems to accelerate heating.

That is the point, when forging the air helps get to temp faster, when you are repeatedly reheating while forging or normalizing before heat treat it needs to be accelerated
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: BowEd on May 05, 2017, 08:55:02 am
Be nice to see a thread on forging.Many on here are into it.I hav'nt looked but I suppose there's a build-a-long somewhere too.
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: PatM on May 05, 2017, 09:06:33 am
I know and I've had no trouble reaching that in a hardwood bed of coals. The use of air just seems to accelerate heating.

That is the point, when forging the air helps get to temp faster, when you are repeatedly reheating while forging or normalizing before heat treat it needs to be accelerated
Maybe if you're getting paid to do it ;).  For a hobbyist beating out a knife blade the fire will heat it fast enough while rests his hammer arm and mops his perspiring face with a cool cloth. lol
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: willie on May 05, 2017, 02:58:16 pm
too much time at temp causes grain growth. repeated reheats while forging or excessive graininess from leaving too long in the coals, calls for the extra normalizing treatment to be added to the workflow and good normalizing is hard to accomplish without a nice forge
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: PatM on May 05, 2017, 06:26:09 pm
This is why so few actually forge ahead and experiment even if conditions and tools aren't perfect. Paralysis by analysis. ::)
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: Greybuff on May 05, 2017, 08:09:10 pm
For less than a hundred dollars if you know how to weld, cut & grind you can build a really good propane forge. I once used oak, my BBQ and the ex's hairdryer to forge with.

There is a national group called ABANA that is all about blacksmithing. Then inside of ABANA almost every state has a local chapter where you can learn how to do just about anything blacksmithing.

You can literally learn how to make a forge and other tools, even how to forge by watching YouTube.
It's a very addicting hobby and what you can do with the skil is endless. I've' been at it off and on for 40 years and worn out plenty of body parts but still love it. I've built 5 forges, 9 treadle hammers, 4 pneumatic power hammers, 2 knife grinders, so you can really with basic tools build just about any blacksmithing tool you need. And any heavy piece of iron can make an anvil, there even a guy on YT that makes a 100+ pound anvil that looks commercially made.
So, as we like to say "get it hot and hit it hard".
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: Hawkdancer on May 06, 2017, 12:31:33 am
😀👹😀😂 Let's see if I got this straight - good hardwood/charcoal fire on top of flint/stone and 2-3 inches of sand - put steel in fire and watch it get cherry red, quench in veg oil, check, hammer, repeat, quench thirst, repeat thirst  quencher, get steel red again, quench in oil, hammer, rest arm, quench thirst, repeat sequence until fire is out, check stone when cool enough, if smooth and glossy, quench thirst, then take little lady out to dinner so She doesn't get p.o.'d about you spending so much time in shop or garage."
 Hawkdancer
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: willie on May 06, 2017, 01:48:03 pm
the quench is the next to last step, and only done once, to harden.

look around here


Code: [Select]
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/forums/92/Metal-Working
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: DC on May 06, 2017, 02:11:24 pm
If you hammer after you quench you break the blade. I watch "Forged in Fire", I know stuff ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: Hawkdancer on May 06, 2017, 09:46:46 pm
So no quench after first heat, just cool, then reheat red to hammer, then quench in oil, then heat in oven, and final quench.  Guess I will try to get to the "Hammer In" just down the road and learn from the guys doing it!  Now, if I can just find a flintknapper close by!
Thank for all the info!  Got to learn something new every day😀😀😂
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: A Forging Question
Post by: bubby on May 07, 2017, 12:15:10 am
If you can find someone to show you first hand that is always the best