Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: elisonj on April 28, 2017, 10:16:52 am
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Hi Guys!
I was reading some interests threads like:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50571.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,60200.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=50109.0
and I'm wondering why only ipe and purpleheart is commonly recognized as a 'mid-top' wood when has some backing (e.g bamboo)?
Is that because the big part of the wood you haven't access? or because there is no enough information about the wood's properties?
In some places It's possible to see "Guajaivy" ( Guajuvira as we call her here ) in a list with the bow index at 10.90, or Brazilwood with 10.22.
I've tested Guajuvira and It's really very good.
But there are many others wood that we make bows here that I think could be very interesting abroad and it's ignored.
For example, I do no if all the values are correct, but we can get a wood here called "Bolivian Walnut":
http://woodmonsters.com/wood-species-specifications.html
http://charlespetersonflooring.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/chapter_05.pdf
Strength (MOR): 22,380 psi
Stiffness (MOE): 1,560 1000 psi
MOR / MOE = 14.34
It's a very impressive bow index.
Other wood we have here is a wood called "Pau Marfim" or "Guatambu" (Brazilian Maple). I've made a couple of bows using it, and works really nice, including as the back of other woods.
Strength (MOR): 19,870 psi
Stiffness (MOE): 2,022 1000 psi
MOR / MOE = 9.72
We have too a palm that was common used for the Amazon Natives called "Tucun" or "Macauba", but I can't find any details of the wood. Only photos:
(http://www.risada.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/P1070016-608x394.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8-MqNAuZgHs/Uqsa99mTrzI/AAAAAAAABVI/5GDQQFA95I8/s1600/flechas.jpg)
And in this same line, there are much others:
Santos Mahogany: 12.32
Bloodwood: 11.42
Kurupayra / Angico: 11.26
Cabreuva: 10.58
Sucupira: 9.65
Garapa: 8.52
There is much more, and the biggest part I never see any bowyer using.
I know that the bow index doesn't mean so much, but it's a parameter to consider, or not?
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Access and price if available are deterrents.
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Access and price if available are deterrents.
+1 most of us don't live down there. Do you? If so by all meams use them and let us know.
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Kiln dried local Wood Smiths' Store boards are my only option there.
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Access and price if available are deterrents.
+1 most of us don't live down there. Do you? If so by all meams use them and let us know.
Yes, I'm Brazilian... I used some of then and works pretty well, but I always tought the bests woods to make bows is yew, osage, maple, etc. Here we don't have the art of make bows as a cultural thing, so, the bowyers here believe you abroad have much more knowledge about our native bow wood than us. And the best woods too.
I could say that 95% of Brazilian's bowyer learn how to make bows with you. They learn from foruns, dvds, build-alongs, etc. Many bowyers here sometimes import wood ( like maple ) to make bows , even we have similar woods or even better.
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My trip before last to Patrocinio I was surprised to see purpleheart used for shovel handles. I started to whittle a bow out of one just for something to do. I also have two of the palm bows.
Everytime I'm down there I'm in wood heaven and wish I could send some of it back home.
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My trip before last to Patrocinio I was surprised to see purpleheart used for shovel handles. I started to whittle a bow out of one just for something to do. I also have two of the palm bows.
Everytime I'm down there I'm in wood heaven and wish I could send some of it back home.
Yeah, here it is very used to hammer handles, fences, truck body, etc.
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When I started building wood bows there were only books and the authors of those books were gleaning whatever info they could get from archival investigation and the writings of previous wood bow builders. These guys really pushed the wood bow envelope by experimenting with every wood possible and every design they could come up with, even some most couldn't imagine. Since the internet all of this gathered information and experimental bravery got all of us to where we are today. Folks here in the US, that live in bow wood desert states have found a way to get bow wood, either from the local handyman stores, wood dealers or through trade.
I bet with a little investigation you could find out more info about the bows that are original to your country or region of the world.
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I think the wood data base and bow wood are like comparing apples to oranges. If a tree is protected in a tight forest from wind it will likely fail in compression, mean while a tree that has to deal with the environment will be more rubbederband like.it's all about the elasticity !
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I have used Pau Ferro and Pau Amarello many times to make bows and I believe both are from Brazil. They are both excellent bow-wood but both need to be backed. Brazilian Rosewood is also an excellent bow-wood
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Plenty of South American woods are good for bows. Snakewood, beefwood(massaranduba), lemonwood, maracaibo boxwood, purpleheart, blackpalm, any of the rosewoods(also tulipwood, and kingwood), pernambuco, ipe and even lignum vitae has been used. Bound to be a hoard of others that I can't list off the top of my head at the moment.
Woods like purpleheart are okay, but they have a tendency to either break in tension, or in compression sooner than you would expect, unless made wide and flat, or backed with hickory or bamboo.
Like Pat said price and availability are a pretty big factors for many of these woods when outside of Brazil.
I rate beefwood highly as a bow wood, and have also used it as a backing. As a selfbow it tends to follow the string quite a bit, like lemonwood. This is why traditionally bowyers have glued up staves from these woods, with a backing to maximise durability and a little reflex in them to maximise cast.
Pernambuco is very much like ipe, very narrow strong bows. It was always expensive, highly prized by violin bow makers extremely rare now due to CITES convention banning export. Ipe is a much cheaper option.
Snakewood, probably one of the most beautiful timbers, and definitely one of the most expensive. I have two bows backed with tonkin cane, made in the English style, really stunning, only about 3/4" wide for a 50lb bow. Snakewood performs like Ipe, really good. Never made a selfbow from the wood, apparently native chieftens used it in selfbows. In the Victorian era it had a reputation for breaking. Once again a backing eliminated the fear of this problem happening.
The tendency for many of these woods to need a backing may have held back the opinion of many not to class them as a true bow woods by themselves.
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During the Victorian era these tropical hardwoods were highly rated, especially when paired with Hickory backing.
Thompson praises them highly in the Witchery of Archery. He really liked his Snakewood/Hickory longbow.
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I found a slab of Brazilian pear flooring at my in-laws house and it made a great 60# @ 30 "69" NTN pyramidal long bow when backed with hickory. I made it for my neighbor. 1700 arrows, has 7/8" follow. Only 1 5/8 wide. Beautiful color and durability. The other name is Timborana.
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Most of the tropical woods are bad about chysaling. Some of the ones mentioned above are good. I don't like purple heart much, It is a lot like black locust, prone to chysaling. Massaranduba is an exceelent wood, as good as osage I would say for backed bows but not as good for self bows.
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One of my all time favorite woods is guayacan but it is a CITES listed species so I have to definitely not import it. Both the argentine and true variety are as good as osage in a lot of ways, if not better?
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I like Bloodwood just fine. (and Ipe)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd44/kmsnake/20150819_185823.jpg)
I think that a good boo backing helps a lot of the dense south american woods since compression strength seems to be their shining property.
Ipe tends to be the most readily available wood here in the US but some of the specialty wood stores do carry other south american and african species. The one thing that holds me back (aside from $20+ BF) "exotic" woods is that many of them don't have straight grain or are hard to see the rings on, so I am not always inclined to risk the investment in time & $ to maybe not get a working bow.
I have heard some good things about Jatoba and if I can ever find a clean, straight, dense piece, I will likely take the risk.
Ken
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Wow! That is a lot of wood who I don't know that I could use.
Here in fact is very common to find woods like Jatoba, Purple heart, ipe, massaranduba, Aroeira ( other name: Gonsalo Alves ). Others not so easy to find like Pau Amarillo, Bloodwood.
And of course, the dificults: Rosewood (any type), Guayacan, lignum vitae, snakewood, maracaibo boxwood, etc.
When I make some bow, I commonly back him with boo or 'Pau Marfim' ( Guatambu ) who I think is like a BR hickory. But ever could compare because never got hickory in hands.
But I really had no Idea that some woods here could be similar to osage, (who I was planning import and try to use) and can be compared to him.
This discussion really help me. Thanks a lot. :)
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There is another species called Greenheart ( Chlorocardium rodiei ) that is supposed to be good for bows. An older gentleman from BC who used to make bows used it and he claimed it was better than Ipe.