Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Kalvek on April 02, 2017, 09:19:49 pm
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Hey Guys! It's been a while since my last post where I introduced myself, but I did finally get started on my board bow.
I wanted to throw up a few pictures just to show where I'm at (not very far along), and ask a few questions as well.
It's ended up taking me quite a while with a saw rasp and sand paper to taper down each corner -- far longer than I expected. Combining that with the little amount of time that I have to work on it in the evenings, and I just wonder if there's a faster way to remove wood without power tools? I have yet to glue on the handle, I need to file in the nocks, and I need to start the tillering process/removing enough wood to be able to start the tillering process. Maybe I'm in the wrong mindset when I'm working on the bow, but I find that after I start getting a bit tired from using the saw rasp I start to get a little frustrated and try to work faster, since I feel like I'm not removing very much wood.
I worry about that mindset affecting the tillering process, since I've heard that even removing a small amount can alter the tiller greatly, and I don't want my impatience to ruin the bow.
I guess what I'm asking here is two-fold: 1. How can I change my outlook to tame this impatience of mine in working on the bow? (I think it might also come from feeling like I'm up against a clock due to limited time) 2. Is there something I'm missing with using the tools I have available in getting the most out of them? I have the Shinto saw rasp, a 4 in one file, nock file (unsure of the diameter), triangle file, handsaw, and a Nicholson woodworker's file (I haven't had much luck with it). I don't have any scrapers or a draw knife, unfortunately, and no power tools save for a drill.
(First picture is the profile of the bow measuring 68 inches end to end. Second picture is the center portion of the bow where the handle is going to go -- the center point is measured with 8 inches allowed for the handle)
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Do you have a hatchet? It may sound a little crude but it will get rid of the bulk of the wood.
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I think you should find or make a scraper. Even a cheap "4-way" paint scraper works.
Use a pencil with a guide to clearly mark off just a little bit of material (like 1/16" down the belly or up to 1/4" for things like the shorter side profile tapers ), and that is your goal to remove for that session. You're not making a bow today, you're just getting it shaved down to that line without making a mistake.
Clamp the stave down securely so it doesn't flex or move as you file. Use the coarse side of the shinto to make deep gouges down the length of the area you are removing, then use the scraper to remove the gouged material leaving it smooth again.
Doing it in phases like that will get you acquainted with using the Shinto, so when you get down to tillering you have a better hand with it. You'll then be using the fine side of the shinto, a regular half-round file, or just the scraper to remove small, controlled amounts.
Tips: For wider surfaces like the belly, its eaiser to use the Shinto rasp to make a "crown" than to go across the whole flat of the surface. With the scraper, go slow and controlled with long passes and moderate pressure, but not so much you could lose control and make a deep gouge.
Good luck!
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Just gitcherself a good choppin knife. Only tool you need. :D
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Get a farriers rasp, $20 and will flat hog wood off!! With a good sharp rasp i can rough out a board bow in 40 mins
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Get a farriers rasp, $20 and will flat hog wood off!! With a good sharp rasp i can rough out a board bow in 40 mins
Do you recommend a particular one? Or a place to get them?
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A farriers shop!
Sorry...I had to say that.....:)
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I agree with Bubby. A good sharp fariers rasp can really remove some wood quickly. I ordered mine from our local hardware store. It is made in Brazil but I'm very happy with it so far. I had several other old worn out ones that didn't work. Just because a tool is old doesn't mean that it's good or bad. They were built good but many were used and misused.
I have always had the ability to see what the end product will look like even just holding the raw material in my hand. I think that really helps me to enjoy the process of getting there. Many projects start out looking overwhelming and even go backwards for long periods of time. It helps me to see the end product in my hand and the steps it takes to get there. The right tools will also help. A good draw knife and scraper are also excellent tools. As said you can remove wood quickly to floor tiller but then to slower thoughtful wood removal is necessary. When you finish your bow and shoot it, you will be so excited you won't want to put it down. Just remember to start another and it probably will be better and take less time to build. Good luck. Keep you chin up your getting there.
Bjrogg
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TSC or most farm stores carry farriers rasps
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Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy applying to a few jobs and other general life stuff.
DC -- I actually don't have a hatchet, but if I did, would I use it like a scraper? I can't imagine I would be hacking at the bow stave, since that might cause cracking. Is there a method to the use of a hatchet in shaping a bow stave.
txdm -- I was thinking that as well, but I don't want to spend too much more money on tools if I can help it. I did try looking, but it doesn't seem like local hardware stores like Home Depot, Lowe's, or Ace even carry card scrapers. Does a 4-way paint scraper work on the same principle (i.e. it uses the burr to scrape off wood)?
When you say "1/16 in. down the belly" do you mean that that would be the thickness I would be removing from the entirety of the belly? I'm not quite sure, but I think I would already be at the tillering stage now, since all that's left to do is file in the nocks, glue on and shape the handle, and tiller/taper down the limbs. Thanks for all the tips, though!
sleek -- You mean like a machete?
bubby -- Wow! That's quite the result! It took me roughly 40 minutes per corner that I was tapering down to the nock. I have to ask, when you're using the rasp, do you have the bow stave clamped down and you're using bot hands to apply pressure with the rasp? That might be why it was taking me so long with the Shinto, since I was mostly doing it one handed and my "clamp" was just sitting on the stave on top of an upturned bucket to hold it down (I don't have the room for a proper workspace, so I just work in the corner of my mostly filled garage)
bjrogg -- A draw knife /is/ a tool I would like to get later on when I'm more settled, so I'm definitely keeping it in mind. Scrapers or a farriers rasp are probably what I'm going to have to choose between right now. I did want to ask: I've been hearing about floor tillering a lot, but what exactly is it? How is it done?
Steve Milbocker -- Ah, I think there's a TSC that's actually not too far from where I am! Thanks! Now I just need to find a local store that might carry card/cabinet scrapers to see which is cheaper.
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A nice sharp axe can be a precision tool. Just don't wail away at it like you were an axe murderer.
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Would you have any recommendations for a brand of axe that might be best as a woodworking tool, DC? I don't know the first thing about using an axe as a precision tool in any kind of woodcraft, so I'll need to look up some resources on it as well.
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I use a Ka-Bar survival figjting knife. A machete would be a bad idea as they are more flimsy and a bit oversized.
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Since I got my Shinto rasp I won't even touch my chunky clunky farriers rasp. It's more effective and easier to control, imo. They're not even $20 on amazon. There is a course side and finer side, as well. Much better tool, I think.
Good luck!
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If your not using a clamp or vise to hold your material, and I suggest using something you can sit on to be able to use your body weight to hold the material down while rasping. I do that all the time. I have a step stool type tool box that ivput a cloth down and and sit ontop of it having the stave undet my foot to hold it in place. I've made a few bows that way so far. With a farriers rasp this way I could probably take a stave to a tooth putt in an hour of I felt like it. Using a solid vise just speeds things up a bit. If your interested in using an axe or hatchet. I suggest looking into a single bevel carpenters axe with a loose head. The loose head allows you to remove and flip it around to be able to switch the side the bevel is on. They have a flat cutting face and fine angle on the edge making for clean cuts and fast wood removal. I really want one for myself. But just havnt got around to getting gone yet.
Kyle
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My hatchet doesn't have a brand name. It's just old thing that's been kicking around for years. Sorry, that's not much help.
But---- if you don't have a way of holding your work solidly so that you can put some weight on it, it will take some time. Like others have said, find a way to hold the stave firmly and a farriers rasp or a shinto rasp will hog off wood very quickly. How about a Workmate, not ideal but way better than nothing. Maybe clamp it to a picnic bench.
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+1 shinto & fairies rasp with those 2 tools you can ruff a bow out pretty quick or for cheap you can glue 38 grit belt sander belts cut up on a flat board for a good poor mans rasp ! When I get impatient I ether stop & go do something else tell I get my head right ! It gets easer being patient once you get a few bows shooting !
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Parnell -- Huh, I actually recently ordered and used the Shinto saw rasp, but it wasn't working nearly as quickly as I thought it would. That could be due in part to not having a vise or a proper way to weigh down the bow stave as I worked on it, other than to sit on it on top of an overturned bucket. Do you find you need to put a little weight behind the rasp when using it to get it to remove wood quickly?
Mo/Kyle -- I don't have a clamp or a vise, and I'm starting to think that that might be the problem; I'm starting to think that I don't need any extra tools to remove wood other than what I have, I just might need a vise to make the most of them. What I've been using to hold down the bow stave is just a 5 gallon paint bucket that I set the bow stave on and sit on top of. It hasn't provided enough grip for me to really put weight behind any given tool that I'm using at a time. I'm actually happy with the tools that I have if I can use them to their fullest, I was just going with the axe suggestion since I'm new to this and don't know quite how many tools I need to build a bow. Thanks for the suggestion, though! I'll keep it in mind for when I've got more I can spend on tools for bowyery.
DC -- Yeah, I've been thinking that that might be the crux of my problem (what with the work going by slowly). I'll consider the Workmate, but I did see a $20 vice that I might be able to clamp onto something on Home Depot's website, so maybe that could work? I suppose I can always go to the local Home Depot and see how good the Workmate is and if the vise it comes with would be suitable for the job. And if the stave ends up wanting to flip out of the vise's grip on the Workmate, I could always use c-clamps to clamp a piece of wood over workmate to hold down the bowstave (I think the jaws on it are made of wood, so I'm not sure how much grip they'll have).
Stick Bender -- Well, I can mark off the Shinto at least -- I ordered and received one of those the other week. Huh, I hadn't heard about or thought to use belt sander belts, though I have been using a spare block of wood as something to wrap my sandpaper around for use. Ah, thanks! That always seems to be the advice people have for whenever you get frustrated or impatient, and it's even recommended for programming (or learning it like I am), so I don't know /why/ I didn't think to apply it in this situation. I guess I just needed outside perspective. Hehe, I'm sure! Nothing quite like being able to use something you made yourself!
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This worked quite well for holding the stave
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Now, that's a workshop, DC! :OK
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It would have been a whole lot better if it hadn't been drizzling. That pic was taken at the Cumberland gathering last year.
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I use an old meat cleaver for finer chopping work. It lighter an easier to control than a hatchet and better for chopping than a knife.
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If it was drizzling, wouldn't that have affected the bow stave in some way? I've always heard that you shouldn't get a bow or a bow stave wet. Ah, if only I had something so stable to work with -- I'll just have to improvise something I suppose. Perhaps I can use some twine, C clamps and something heavy to hold down the back end of the stave while I'm working?
I did have another question if you guys wouldn't mind answering? The board I'm working on is 68" end to end, so I was wondering, if I'm going to put a handle on it and taper the handle down to meet the taper of the limbs, what length should the initial uncut handle block be? I currently have 8 inches marked out on the bow for where I should place the block, but I'm not sure if that's too long and could interfere with the function of the bow itself.
EDIT: If it helps, I've decided that I'm going to follow the red oak board bow build-along on Sam Harper's website, since it seems he didn't need many tools to complete that one, and I don't have a lot of money to buy more tools. The only difference's off the top of my head between his and mine are that mine will be 68" instead of 72" when finished, and I'll be backing it with linen cloth instead of that ugly drywall tape.
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Yes it did. I stopped working on that bow the second day. I thought I could feel it getting limp. I think I shot it but I'm not sure. Anyway when I got it home I put it in the warm box for a week or so, heat treated it and it came right around. We had a shetler to work in but it was still 100% RH.