Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Emmet on October 30, 2016, 03:48:58 pm
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I have heard "this bow" can't be shot with a fast flight string. It's not made for one . Or some will put tip overlays on so they can. I've heard people say they've never had an issue.
Question is, Has anyone here had a failure due to ff string or seen a broken bow that was a direct result.
Any pictures.
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I use FF strings on my self bows without overlays! My current hazel bow is 60# and has no problems with that string.
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I've always used Fast Flight, no problems. I'm wondering how a person could directly attribute a bow failure to the string?
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Just today my (estimated) 120 pound ash longbow lost its tip during tillering due to a FF string cutting in along the grain. It was my fault as I did a poor job cutting in that temporary self nock. In the end it wasn't a critical failure; the bow had plenty of length left.
I would advise caution, perhaps even some padding around the loops of the string to make them thicker. Then again, the better designed nocks did just fine without any padding. It's just not worth it, adding a bit of dacron doesn't hurt and it might save one some trouble.
On softer woods it might be a problem. If the nocks are not done well.
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I use B-50 because I still have enough for another 10 bows. No biggy. It stretches somewhat.
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I use overlays on all my yew and maple bows. I put them on early in the tillering so that might account for my lack of failures. I also don't make bows much over 45#.
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I've heard some FG bow shooters tell me they thought FF couldn't be used for self bows, it's a myth, thousands of wood bows out there have FF strings.
The only problem I can see is already been stated, a small diameter string splitting the grain at the nock, easily remedied with padded string, a thicker string, or tip overlays
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All my bows have FF strings. Never had a problem. I'm not sure how a string could make a bow fail in the first place.
Linen has less stretch or about the same as FF and that was used almost exclusively until modern synthetics
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Some glass bows have poorly filed nocks with the grooves cut sharply across the limb with no finessing of the angle. That allows the string to get a start in splitting the limb.
It's those bows that set this essential myth in motion.
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The only bows that are suceptible to fast flight string are the extremely set back hooks and reflex on the high dry fire speed of the horn bows.The various cultures that make them.The tips can split or shatter.So if it is'nt that type a bow it's a green light go for ya to use it.Been using it on my self and laminated bows for years and years.Never a failure yet from that.
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I use FF strings but I pad my loops with 2 strands of Dacron
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I suspected It may just be a myth on self bows and tip overlay are purely for sex appeal.
Any failure may be the result of a poorly made knock.
Thanks.
I have a reflex plum bow that's nearing finish and was planning on ff string but really didn't want overlays.
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Some glass bows have poorly filed nocks with the grooves cut sharply across the limb with no finessing of the angle. That allows the string to get a start in splitting the limb.
It's those bows that set this essential myth in motion.
I can pretty much guarantee if you use FF string with the older glass bows from the 60's, 70's you are sitting on a Fibre glass bomb just waiting to go off. The glass used now is a lot different then what was used in those days.
But, now I try to use Fast Flight or an equivalent on my bows.
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After having no problems in the past few years with FF strings, I've started using FF on ALL my bows. BUT, I do pad my loops to make them a reasonable thickness. Eight or ten strands of most FF material for a string just isn't good design or using good common sense.
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I had a hickory bow spiit at the string groove,( maybe it was gonna split with any string,, that is in 25 years of bow making), small diamenter ff,, I think if I had padded the loop it would have been fine,, ,, I have never had any problem with osage,,
I still shoot b 50 on alot of bows, I like the thicker string,, and when I use fast flight I have started to pad it just in case,,
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Some glass bows have poorly filed nocks with the grooves cut sharply across the limb with no finessing of the angle. That allows the string to get a start in splitting the limb.
It's those bows that set this essential myth in motion.
I can pretty much guarantee if you use FF string with the older glass bows from the 60's, 70's you are sitting on a Fibre glass bomb just waiting to go off. The glass used now is a lot different then what was used in those days.
But, now I try to use Fast Flight or an equivalent on my bows.
You know George Stout has been using FF on bows from the 50s to present day and never had a failure?
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I prefer to use overlays. I have had a couple burrow into the grain with osage. Small percentage though. If I use 10 strands of fastflight or more I have never had a problem. I think my 6 strand string is the one that borrowed in.
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i mostly use 8 strand and put some extra b-55 in the loops
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I just put a strand of artificial sinew into the loops.It's about as thick as a couple of B50 strands.It pads and thickens it up enough for the bows.
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I made an Eastern Woodland design with those singular side knocks that are flip-flopped on both sides of the bow...no overlays...thin ff string. It eventually cut into the bow. I just made a real thin Osage overlay to reinforce it. I think it is a good idea to pad the loops if they are thin.
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I usually pad the loops and most times over lays, but use FF on everything, never any problem, I have seen lots of b50 tiller strings cut the corner of the knock and split or at least start splitting the limb also when they get frayed up a bit and aren't kept waxed. Happens a lot at the Classic. I try and teach folks to take the string off while scrapping and that helps but some just won't do it and over a day of scrapping the string will get in bad shape if you don't keep and eye on them. :)
Pappy
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I have always put D97 strings on my bows with no immediate problems, I shoot my bows for years and seldom have a problem I can trace to FF.
I have had three bows that cracked after years of use, they had in excess of 150K arrows shot through them.
One friend whose bow cracked suggested the bow might have lasted longer with a B50 string to absorb more of the shock over the years. His bow was shot for 5 years and had enough arrows put through it to wear out two D-97 strings, that's a lot of arrows.
If B50 is easier on a bow over the years I can't prove it but it makes sense.
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I had a red oak bow (stave not board) split at the nock and down about 4 inches. I was using FF as a tillering string.
String was not padded and I don't do overlays.
I can't say that it would have split with B 50 anyway as I don't know but I can't remember that ever happening.
But I've been doing this for about 25 years so I can't remember for sure. That's a long time for remembering.
All I can say is make your own decision. I made mine. I'm sticking with B 50.
Jawge
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whew ,, I didn t know you could use a 6 strand,, that sounds scary to me,, :) but it is haloween,,so maybe I should try it,,
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I've noticed with going with fewer strands, is the bow gets louder. Anybody else notice this? I've had to really play with the brace height and silencers on the string. Kinda wonder if after all of the extra weight thrown on the string it's not defeating the purpose for the extra speed? After all, B-50 quits stretching after a while.
Don't take me wrong, I hae a roll of something called 8125 they use at the Bear Factory for strings that will last me 50 years, just curious.
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I hunt with b 50,, at close range the fps I loose is not an issue,,
I test bows with the fast flight for fun,, and the low stretch is nice when first stringing a bow,,,,
but I like the feel of the thicker string for shooting,, so I use both,,
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I've noticed with going with fewer strands, is the bow gets louder. Anybody else notice this? I've had to really play with the brace height and silencers on the string. Kinda wonder if after all of the extra weight thrown on the string it's not defeating the purpose for the extra speed? After all, B-50 quits stretching after a while.
Don't take me wrong, I hae a roll of something called 8125 they use at the Bear Factory for strings that will last me 50 years, just curious.
I like the low stretch but I don't like too skinny of a string. The extra weight of more strands doews cut down speed, about 1 1/2 fps per strand. An extra 4 strands is only about 6 fps. It might be 1/2 that, I am not sure if I am remembering right.
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The only time I had any bow failures with FF was because of some other problem. One time I had an arrow nock fail and the resulting dry fire destroyed the tip overlay, split the limb tip and cracked the bow in half at the handle. Other nock failures simply damaged the limb tips.
I used to make 6 strand FF strings for bows up to 70# and 8 strands for bow heavier than that but now it's just 8 strands till I reach 80#.
I don't think that it's just the extra string mass that slows down a bow but a combination of mass and diameter, with the extra diameter catching more air.
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Some glass bows have poorly filed nocks with the grooves cut sharply across the limb with no finessing of the angle. That allows the string to get a start in splitting the limb.
It's those bows that set this essential myth in motion.
I can pretty much guarantee if you use FF string with the older glass bows from the 60's, 70's you are sitting on a Fibre glass bomb just waiting to go off. The glass used now is a lot different then what was used in those days.
But, now I try to use Fast Flight or an equivalent on my bows.
How is modern glass different? It is still unidirectional even the uls with the scrim is unidirection. It will still split as easy as looking at it. It is more how the nock is cut and the material used for the overlay.
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I usually use a 10 or 12 strand D97, but have used as little as 6 also. I don't like the 6 strand as well even thought it worked fine, I also use a larger serving so I don't have to double wrap. I find just the opposite Eddie, I fine them to be quieter, less shock and no string slap. I used B50 for years and yes it will settle in as far as brace but still stretches at the shot. I see no down side to FF. Some are of the mind it's more Traditional/Primitive, ??? but it's all man made material so that's no argument. ;) :)
Pappy
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FF string is quieter for me than B50 too.It's a win win situation far as I'm concerned.Each to his own.
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dacron seems to have a twangier sound, ff more crispy. I think it depends on tension and string length too...
Someone brought a glass/wood laminate longbow (hill style?), 65#@28" to the range tonight. He has no string of the proper length, so I offered to make one. Think I'll go with a b55 fat string for safety.. I also have D97 though.. That bow looks like it could be pretty old. Rather narrow. The back is a greenish/cyanish color, looks a bit of a grid pattern. Maybe some of the laminations are bamboo. maybe i'll post it in the campfire