Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BowEd on October 15, 2016, 03:37:35 pm
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Here's another ERC bow with a tapered maple backing.In the works still yet though.I'm very close to my draw weight pulling 22" so far @ 40#'s.Pulling smooth @ 2#'s per inch.It's basically in tiller good with a about 1/8" postive tiller.
My question is that there still is a bit of reflex showing just above midlimb at brace and does'nt seem to completely disappear at 22" yet either.Other than that I'm liking it.The profile should be flat in that area correct?A few scraper swipes in that area to get a nice even slightly rounded brace and draw side view profile.At least I think so from doing these in the past.It's ERC you know...kinda finnicky and had to ask.Bows' got plenty of width[2"@ fades] and length[68" TTT] to get my 52#'s @ 28".
Just unbraced
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1371_zpsjx2rmwmd.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1371_zpsjx2rmwmd.jpg.html)
At brace
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1374_zpssnuz9xcp.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1374_zpssnuz9xcp.jpg.html)
Side view of each limb
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1372_zpsmljtygw6.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1372_zpsmljtygw6.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1373_zpsmsezu4ix.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1373_zpsmsezu4ix.jpg.html)
Pulled to 22"
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1375_zps1ptzwnxj.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1375_zps1ptzwnxj.jpg.html)
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Looking at this more @ 22" draw I think I need to get the outer third just above midlimb bending more for a more rounded profile.
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Looks like the limbs are threatening to hinge about 6 inches in from either tip.
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Are they bending at all in middle areas, also there are hinges like Pat said
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I'm afraid I'm probably not much help with you tiller but I like your Oliver Ed. "For Men Who Grow" always interesting see other people's work space. We got an old 88.
Bjrogg
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I think I'd be worried where it comes out of the Fade, handle area. Looks like a lot of tension going on there.
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I agree with mullet...seems to be working a lot right at the fades. That one area on the left limb towards the limbs looks like it might be trying to hinge too.
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From what I can see. It looks like you need to leave the inner 4-5" alone. Then scrape from there to midlimb and make that bend and see what it looks like.
Kyle
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I've never tiller one like this but it seems to me the hinges are just kinks that I can see in you side limb profile pictures. It does seem to be bending a lot in the fades but I'm sure some is deflex you put in. It's seems more bend in the left fade to me. For what my 2 cents are worth I think I'd avoid fades and tips remove wood from mid limbs. I not real good at these though I think I'd just have to watch one like this move. I'm sure you'll get her under control Ed
Bjrogg
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What has happened is the tillering has gotten away from you for a R/D. One limb is going to have to go to a round profile to keep from hinging and then the other limb is going to also to make them match. I imagine you will lose a lot more weight then you wanted too.
Tillering a R/D is different then a regular "D" shaped bow in that you want the limbs to almost roll over in a wide "V" at full draw. When I scrape I start from the curves and work my way back towards the handle. That way I keep from digging a weak area near the handle.
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I think we need Eddie or Marc to do a D/R tiller how-to!
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Yea...I agree with you guys about this bow.I did get the limbs bending into a nice arch evenly.My goal was to make a red cedar bow that would be less stressed and last a long time.So wide and long it is.I was worried too about the possible hinge failure towards the tips too.That's why I did'nt pull it farther than 22"....lol.I scraped like said from the tips downward towards the handle mostly in the area that was just below the hinge with a cabinet scraper.Lost more pounds than I wanted and took more set then I wanted then too.I gave it a 1.25" deflex and 3.25" reflex which gave me a 2" reflex off the form.It turned out to be around 43 to 44 pounds at 28"-28.5".Only resting with maybe 1/2" reflex now.So it lost 1.5" reflex.I'll shoot a 465 grain arrow[lowest I got] through the chronograph once.
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bjrogg....Yea that's an old 1966 diesel 1850 Oliver.Made quite a few rounds with that tractor....lol.Your 88 is older than that I think.
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Well some more wood removal yet from 43 to 44 pounds and I'm at 39 to 40 pounds but I like the bend a lot better.There was a stiff spot on the lower limb.It might need a little more out of the inner third towards the fades but I think I'll just leave it.At this point of progress on this bow I'm seriously thinking of piking it some to get up up to around 45 to 50 pounds.From 68" to 64",but that will put more stress yet on the limbs I'm afraid.Right now it's operating with a bout 1" of string follow.Going back to rest the tips a smidgen above the handle.Piked I'm sure that'll get to be more.I did shoot a 465 grain arrow and it went over 160 fps anyway.Some pics of the progress.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1380_zpsllyytkbj.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1380_zpsllyytkbj.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1379_zpsnmanhzqi.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1379_zpsnmanhzqi.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1381_zpsx0j1sppv.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1381_zpsx0j1sppv.jpg.html)
This might be a good bow for Robin to shoot.It shoots fine and should be safe enough for her.If I can get her to put all of her other projects down.....lol.She hates opossums.They eat her cats' cat food.....lol.
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That opossum killer looks good now ,160 fps at 43 lbs 465 grain sounds good for that lower draw weight that ERC/Maple combo will be nice when you get it finished I like the handle & profile !
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That's much better Ed. Good job straightening the tiller out
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The handle is a 10" glue on.2.75" fades/4.5" handle.Feathered in decently I think.I know could get a deer with this bow yet if I wanted to.
My wariness of it working too close the fades and cracking cost me taking too much wood/reflex/and poundage taking too much from the outer third because of that hinge then to get it bending good on the inner third.Could of and should of done that differently.
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Nice save, Ed. You've got it bending nicely. Wonder if you could steam the tips, bend 'em, and glue on a thin underlay? I did that once to a bow that I had glued cherry bark backing to. But that was with TB3. Somebody on here says you can do it with Smooth On, too, and it doesn't weaken the glue. I usually use Unibond when I glue a wood backer on and am afraid to try it with that stuff, though.
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That looks a lot better, Ed.
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Thanks for the idea GB.Curious thought though.I just don't know if smooth on will handle it.The steaming that is.I'd want to do an experiment first.With a couple laminations adding up to 1/2" thick.Steaming and then bending them on the form.The overlays are on with smooth on too.
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Thanks bub and mullet.Better late than never heh....lol,or into pieces on the floor.I did forget my hard hat though.Maybe that's what screwed me up....lol.Just kidding.
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Nice comeback Ed. I love the color of thathe wood.
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Yeah, a test is a really good idea. I want to do that with Unibond one of these days. I've wished that I would have flipped the tips more on a couple of bows after seeing how they looked coming off the form.
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You got that one looking much better Ed. Pulled the rabbit out of the hat on that one.
Bjrogg
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That looks much better Ed, nice save
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Thanks Aaron & bjrogg.
I don't know how [or I guess I do] I get myself into these experimental fixes but I'm seriously thinking about raising the draw weight on this 68" bow.I've just steamed and bent an experimental tip of lamination 1.5" that was gluued together with smooth on epoxy.After cooling down it seems fine and held the bend nicely.
I have 2 options or both together the the way I see it to raise this draw weight.The bow sits about flat at rest right now so at 68" I should be ok especially at 2" wide.Tiller should'nt change very little at all.
1.Doing the math to get a 50# bow I'll need to cut off 1.75" from each tip.To raise it from 39#'s to 50#'s.My horn tip overlays are 1.75" long anyways.That would give me a 64.5"TTT bow/63" NTN.
2.I could steam bend 1.5" set back onto each tip.The last 4 to 5 inches.Which I don't have a mathematic formula for as to how much that will raise the draw weight.Earlier tension for sure but unknowing as to final draw weight number.The 1.5" bends will not quite touch the belly of the tips at brace so it really could'nt be called a recurve.
3.Do both 1 and 2.Number 1 first then number 2 next and glue my overlays back on.
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Ed,, I hate to over simplify ,,, but bottom line is ,, when you kill a deer with that thing, all will be perfect,, :)
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Yes yes yes I know but but but it's the battle against string follow and for the foreseen expected poundage that's at stake here.I have a hard time leaving well enough alone....lol.
More figures.....Expected mass weight of this bow is right within reasonable weight also to handle this.Added mass for 2" of set back minus the 10% reduction in mass because it's a laminated bow.
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Very nice. I like the limb profile
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Thanks Marc...I can't really call it a pyramid or a parallel.It's in between.Works for me.Think there was a thread about that a while ago.
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I call that a pyramolly
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Ha Ha Ha!!!! That's a good one!!!It's some weird creature for sure.I know another Ed bow.
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I really like those narrow kinda mollie outers, too. Got to remember those for a future bow.
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Nice Ed. It looks good from here :)
You know the easiest way to make it heavier is to make another!
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Mike....Yea I know.Then don't be surprised that I show this bow finished /signed and notorized as THE POSSUM KILLER!!!!!I think I got some more red cedar but of shorter lengths,and full length maple backings too.
GB....It was interesting to try to steam and rebend previous smooth on glued laminations though.I'm not sure if it would hold up in the working sections of a bows' limb though.I think on those tips a person could judiciously saw out the glue line[band saw] and stick another short lamination of red cedar in there,sand it and size it and clamp it to the form and accomplish the same thing for a bend on the tips.Steaming is faster and easier though.