Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Chris3kilo on October 13, 2016, 02:33:11 pm
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Anyone know any good european-scandinavian wood for a slim long-selfbow. Besides the, impossible to acquire, yew. :)
And in general, what classify a type of wood good for either long or flatbow? All I seem to read about is what makes a good flatbow.
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Elm.
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ash and elm work, ash is easiest to get, but elm makes a better bow
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Yeah elm is, sadly, extinct here in Denmark. Got an ash stave tied down and dryin I'll try in 2 month or so.
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Actually extinct?
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You have ridiculously dense ash in Norway of about .85 SG, makes superb warbows, only it needs to be carefully watched for humidity level.
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What's about dogwood (cornus mas).
May be sloe (prunus spinosa) or hawthorne (Crataegus)
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PatM ,yes I was told by a lumberjack and I've never seen one here.
Stalker, do you know the right humidity level for our ash? I'm looking forward to work on my ash stave, but the electrical resistant is only 4,6 megaohm wich is like 18-19%
Andrew, no dogwood or hawthorn in my area, but some slie at the beaches. Do they actually become big enough to make a bow ? :)
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I haven't used your ash, but I heard that general opinion is use it below 10% of humidity, like hickory for example. Always work in warm environment and when done for the day, put it near radiator so it doesn't soak humidity again.
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Hazel?
Pine? Yes, pine. Like in the Saami bows. But it probably needs to be backed, unless you're going lower weight. The humidity (or oil?) must be kept high, and I don't know about back grain violations. Maybe the back would be the center of the branch or the inside of the compression part of the trunk that is crooked and curved up, in a way that is "decrowned". And it has to be reaction wood. It's reportedly about as good as yew at compression, according to Kviljo.
Spruce, cedar or something may be better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibX_0LgbTEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1F7cT7s3LM
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Try and find a patch away from the sea for the sloe/blackthorn. When it grows by the sea you just get a ground covering 'shrub'. It will make a superb bow but try to find a large dense patch of it and then go 'tunneling' to the middle......
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I've played with some pine before. It's often very straight but it has way too many.. what is it called in english?? :o u know the spots in the wood where a branch is growing.
I actually got som hazel roughed out and drying. Should be ready in 2 weeks. But I read that hazel is good for flatbows and not warbows longbows?
I'll keep my eyes open for blackthorn
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knots? yeah.. :\ maybe some other conifers don't have as many.
maybe juniper backed with something (maple? white oak?) would be good for english longbow shaped things.
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I actually got som hazel roughed out and drying. Should be ready in 2 weeks. But I read that hazel is good for flatbows and not warbows longbows?
If You don't go to high in poundage (let's say below 160lb), good hazel should work fine.
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Hazel works well if you keep it kind of square in cross-section - Del made an excellent hazel war-bow - its on PA somewhere, I followed his dimensions but reduced it a lot to make a light hazel longbow and it is a really sweet shooting bow
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You can follow dimensions posted on Norwegian warbows website. Also, heat treat the hazel to avoid unnecessary set, heat treating would have prevented set in my hazel flatbow I posted recently.
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I'm having a hard time believing Elm is extinct. Even in devastated areas the tree still continuously produces saplings to small trees. which are what we use anyway.
Seems a lumber guy would only consider lumber sized trees.
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Dutch elm disease.. ?
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Glad to hear about hazel. I'm only aiming for 40-50lbs starter bow. Not for hunting. Made 2 new rough hazel bows today, looking forward to tillering.
Yeah dutch elm disease. But you're right PatM, only older elm trees get the disease so it should be possible to find a sapling. But haven't seen any yet, but maybe it's just to hard to tell the diiference from hazel for me? ::)
Stalker, gotta say, that hazel bow was awesome! When did you heattreat it? As green wood or when it was seasoned? And what method did you use?
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Pat, never seen healthy elm nor its sapling here in Croatia. They are absolutely devastated.
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Chris, forgive for unintentional disinformation. I meant to say that heat treat would have prevented set in my hazel bow, not that I heat treated it (although I wanted to HT it).
I edited my post now.
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Sad! Can't help to wonder if it was the right method to cut down all the sick elm trees as soon as it was detected, instead of letting nature figure it out. At some point The trees are bound to build up some kind of immunity sometime I would believe...
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No problem. :)
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Hazel responds REALLY well to heat treating - like 30% improvement in range for 5% increase in draw weight. Do the heat treatment as the last step before applying finish; do this after tillering
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Any buckthorn or black locust?
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Stuckinthemud aha great info thanks! So I got a heat gun, would that do for heat treating? And should I put on oil before this?
Buckthorn and black locust is only to be found in peoples gardens here in DK.
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heat gun is perfect. some people use oil, some do not, depends on what kind of finish you want to use - if water based finish then you cannot oil the wood as the oil residue will reject the water
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Linseed and paraffin finish i think. So I'll oil it first to avoid burning it.
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I, too, can't believe elm is actually extinct in Denmark. Like I mentioned in another thread, I don't live too far from Denmark (globally speaking) and we've got the disease here too. Sure, trees die left and right, but there are a lot of saplings still, and far from all big trees get infected. Also, worth thinking about is that you can still make good bows from infected trees. IF they got the disease fairly recently. If you see a tree with a dead branch or two at the top, and some branches looking healthy, the tree just caught the disease and will make a bow. You may have to remove a growth ring or two, but it'll work. If the bark is peeling off, it's no good.
Hazel, ash, maple, juniper, elm, rowan all fine. Laburnum, hawthorne (which I'm sure grows in Denmark it grows in north Germany and Sweden), lilac, and hornbeam are probably there too. I'm guessing there are places in Denmark where yew grows too. And then the fruit trees plum, apple, pear, cherry ... Any selje-rĝn nearby?
Personally, I don't see there being a great difference in what kinds of wood make a good flat bow or (English) longbow. If it works for one design, it probably works for the other. Some are of course better suited for heavy warbows, unless you feel like making a 9 foot bow, but for medium weight bows (35-55 pounds or so) of either ELB design or flat design you can get away with using a lot of different kinds of wood. Some has to be made longer or wider than others though. But it's doable. Wether it's possible to make a particular bow from a particular piece of wood is largely a judgement call and the ability to make that call is something you can only learn by doing. And doing a lot of it. But you seem to have the passion for it, so welcome to the club! :-)
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There is not many trees in denmark so why not buy some good bow wood from else where?, trading wood is probably as primitive as making a primitive bow!!! If you want a good bow! buy some good bow wood...
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Yes all the species you mention grows here Frodolf. Yew is here too but only in gardens, the state cut them down because they are poisonous to horses. But my dad got 4 trees in his garden, they're just missing 1" thickness.
About elm disease, here in denmark we got NONE untamed wild nature without human interference. (Why I wanna move to sweden so bad!) All the forests are here for one purpose; building supply's. There is alot lumberjacks connected to the forests and they cut down elm trees with the sickness immediately. Saw a article about the last big elm tree being cut down. I think it was from 2012.
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I agree ash and elm would work but also sycamore is one that Steve Ralphs (the TVs and film bow and arrow man) uses to good effect too.
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No luck with Sycamore yet. Tried to split some logs, but they twisted 90 but I'll keep looking.
I have another question but I don't think it deserves a whole new post;
How thorough do I have to be when removing the underbark on staves, namely hazel? I'm really nervous about violating the back grains. Won't it fall off eventually by itself? ::)
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I cutted hazel sapling at summer end and debarked immediatly. They dried with no checking so I think it's a pretty forgiving wood.
It's a very good wood in my opinion tough it's pretty common to find twisted staves
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Well thats curious, the straigthest staves I've got was from hazel. Maybe it's a geographics thing. Sorry but what is checking? Can't find any answers on google.
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True, Chris, never actually found twisted hazel. All are elliptical in cross section (low crown, wide) and are suitable for both warbows and flatbows. On the other hand never saw good piece of ash or european hornbeam (just once, I used it for lever bow that is currently drying).
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Can't comment on ash. Only got one stave. Really straight but full of knots. It'll be a caracter bow. How is hornbeam working out Stalker? We got alot of that here. Isn't it very similar to european beech?
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Description in lesser known warbow woods says that its like a hickory, but slightly less harder. Supposedly is also forgiving mistakes. European beech is not recommended as bow wood because of short fibers but I think it could be made into a bow if we follow the usual "keep the bow long and wide" rule.
Also, E. hornbeam is hardest wood I have ever worked with. It has wavy back, so its difficult to remove bark, I think I violated back several times, but nothing too serious I hope.
Also mine was full of hidden black hard as steel spots. When I finish the bow I don't think I will ever work with it again.
Here is link to the bow I am working on: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,58345.msg807699.html#msg807699
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checking are cracks and fissures that occurs when wood dries too fast.
that's why you may want to seal the ends end the back of the wood you cut
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That might explain why I had such big trouble reaching a High drawweight on beech. Also a nightmare to work with. Very hard stuff.
Got one to 40lbs 30" but it cracked in a clean line after some shots at the tip of the limbs. Might be rot though.
Thanks Glisglis :)