Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Chris3kilo on October 09, 2016, 10:49:19 am
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Hi, I'm Chris from Denmark. It's great to finally be part of this awesome forum! ;D
I just started bowbuilding 3 weeks ago and I'm havin a hard time finding the right wood for my bow. I read that mountain ash would be great bow wood and we got alot of that here where i live.
My is though, that everytime I split a log it ends up with crazy proppeller twists even though there's no sign of the wood being twisted when i look at the hole log. Is there a way to work around these twists or some way to better indentify twisted wood?
The biodiversity here is quite poor, so if not mountain ash, I can choose between birch, beech, pine and european oak ... :embarassed:
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I can't speak to your variety of Ash, but with the woods around here just read the bark. If it spirals up the tree, leave it and find one where the bark runs straight up the tree. Once split it will be straight end to end. It may dry into some degree of prop twist, but that can be dealt with, by ignoring it or heat straightening.
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Mountain ash isn't really ash. It has a smooth bark, that's what makes it so tricky to read.
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Welcome Chris....On some logs or types of wood it can be hard to see twist.Persimmon was hard for me to see.You get better at it as time moves along.One thing if twist is visible looking at the bark as slight as it might be it will be even more pronounced in the wood yet after you remove the bark.
The only mountain ash here is as a landscape tree in towns with it's red berries on it.Not the greatest of wood.White or green ash here is better.European oak and birch would be better I think but don't hold me to it I've never worked it before.Basing my guess on that woods density and tension/compression qualities.How about mountain maple your way?
There's always a bit of tweaking done with heat most times to get a bow out of a stave.
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Thanks. I'm not sure about mountain maple but actually we got alot of Sycamore (I think it's called in america). Maybe I'm better off trying that. We do have some fraxinus excelsior Ash, along highways, but I'd have to buy some running shoes for that, not sure it's allowed to chop down. ::)
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Our younger Ash trees around here have a smooth bark as well and that does complicate it a bit. The question I would ask is whether you are cutting trees with spiral type growth, or is it straight and just drying into the propeller twist? If it is the former, then work on identifying that grain and leave those trees alone.
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Yes our young ash trees are the same actually.
The mountain ash logs where twisted when i splitted them moments after chopping them down. No seasoning or anything. I swear one of them twisted 180 degrees on 5 foot and the tree was completely straight-looking
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If it's white wood I would try reducing it to a bow shape without splitting it.use a bandsaw, chainsaw or hatchet.you can also kerf cut it with a circular saw and then split it.
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Thought about that too bushboy, but doesn't that violate the grains and make the bow weak?
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You might try cutting in a different area. I think the twist is a genetic thing so maybe get a few kilometers away they may be straighter. others think it's caused by wind and other environmental conditions. Either way, try a different spot. If you can find a place where the threes have to reach to find light (surrounded by taller trees) it may help.
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Aaah interesting DC! That sounds like a good idea. Thanks! :)
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Spiral grain is an ender for me. All the trouble cutting and hauling and splitting, and then you have very little to show for the effort. Osage is my go to wood and I can read the bark pretty well now. There was a time when I could not and a lot of time was wasted. I learned to read the bark and can come home with pretty decent stuff now. Same with most of the white woods. As Ed said, Persimmon is a bit tough because of the smooth bark, but if you look closely you can eliminate the really bad twists. Prop twist I just deal with.
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Mountain ash is not a true ash like Chris said. It is known as Rowan(Sorbus aucuparia) and it does make good bows. Trying to see spiral growth in a smooth bark tree can be difficult but I think if you study it closely you can see it. Maybe a tree that grows in a valley where not much wind will affect it, that has to grow tall and straight will be a better place to look. Probably not a place mountain ash grows.
The birch, beech and European oak should all make good bows if you design the bow to work with the strengths and weakness of each of these woods. If I'm not mistaken even pine was used in the Scandinavian countries in the past.
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Thanks for great answers. i'm kinda hooked on a slim bow style and a sapling rowan would (from what I've read) be perfect.
Actually I just got back from a night raid on the highway and got my self a nice 4 inch fraxinus excelsior ash so maybe I don't need rowan at the moment. ;D
So another question: How should I go on with the seasoning? I was thinking; splitting it, sealing the ends, tying it down on something to prevent warping, and then bring it indoor near a radiator or something. Does that sound ok?
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PatB I've tried beech 2 times and birch 1. They all broke real quick on the tillering stick. But I'm new so it's proberbly on me. Another beech I've tried got to 28" drawlegth and 40lbs. Shot alot of times, and suddently it snapped unprovoked. Had a measurement on the arrow to be sure not to draw it too far. I'm done with beech >:D
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Just someplace in doors and dry. The central air in my home leaves the RH low. 41% right now. Too close to a heat source when it's wet can cause some woods to check rather badly. Do as you mentioned but don't put it near a heat source until it's lost some moisture first. Some white woods need to dry slowly, very slowly at first.
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All right. Thanks ! :)
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You can dry your fraxinus quickly after it has lost intial moisture. It will make a good bow. read up on back trapping as it will really make a big difference.
Rowan....it is darn near impossible to get a read on the grain in Rowan. It will make a fine,durable bow for certain. I've made a few with it but that grain is a "$^(&^%! I can read the grain on any other tree we have growing here but Rowan....nope...no chance. If you want to use Rowan you just have to cut it, split it and then find out. I've actually used Rowan for my last two hornbow cores because it is out closest tree to Acer Saccarum (property-wise). To find those perfectly straight untwisted trees took some work! As mentioned before you need to look in the middle of dense patches of young trees or in deep valleys - it will grow straight if you are lucky.
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Thats great advise Mike thanks. But trapping the back? Does that mean backing the bow? I'd rather not, I think a clean selfbow looks better and i'm only aiming for 40lbs 30". Isn't that doable without backing?
About rowan I'll continue the search then. The rowan bows I've seen looks really great too
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Trapping the back means you make the back narrower than the belly, you can search, it's been mentioned here somewhere...
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Okay I'll try to search it again. :)
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No problem and no it is not like backing it is like the opposite! Essentially you are making the limb a trapezoid in cross section, with the back narrower than the belly. A natural crown will do the same thing but ash is so strong in tension that if you don't do it you will get more set than is necessary.
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I live in Sweden so I know exactly the type of rowan you're talking about. I actually took one down this weekend. It can be absolutely straight and still be twisted wildly underneath the bark. I haven't found a way to tell the grain from looking at the bark. It often also varies in a trunk – the grain can be straight for a couple of feet, twist some, then straight again, then twist the other way... What I do is I carefully cut the bark off in small patches and look at the actual wood. You can see the fibers if you look closely. If the first patch reveal twisted grain, move along. If it's straight, cut another patch perhaps a couple of feet from the first and have a look. Repeat till you've made sure the entire thing has straight grain.
Rowan is strong in tension, it's weakness is compression. So take you time to dry it well, then it'll be stronger in compression. I think it would work well with a MC of about 7 %. It does sometimes crack on me when drying it too fast in the beginning, so cut/split it as thin as possible (1-1,5" or so, depending of what kind of bow you're hoping to make), debark it, glue the ends, and let it sit under roof outdoors or in cool basement or such for a month, then you can take it indoors.
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Thanks for the answer Frodolf I will try that method. So there is hope for Rowan. Went out to the woods yesterday and found a nice piece that looked straight. In the process of cutting it down it got dark and I sawed my thumb real deep and bad! So with blood pouring all over and a treetrunk under my arm i ran for the car. After 10 minutes i realized I was going the wrong way. What a nightmare ;D found the car eventually and put on a bandage. The rowan better be worth it! Haha.