Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: loon on September 20, 2016, 05:12:57 pm
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Should I get a spokeshave or hand plane for, say, shaping a handle? Or trapping the back? Or just thinning or tapering wood faster than with a scraper?
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A rasp.
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I have a shinto rasp, it's a bit slow for some things..
I hammer with a chisel sometimes but it is loud and somewhat hard to control
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You can do all that with a rasp and scraper. I've spent a lot of money for bow building over the years and I still just use a draw knife, farriers rasp, #49 rasp, chainsaw file and a scraper with the #49 and the scraper only after floor tiller and scraper only for final tiller. I never had luck with a spoke shave except on yew and ERC and for the bows I build a plane has no place on my work bench.
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I see, thanks
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I like a spokeshave myself, I'v just got a cheap one, which I've tuned up a bit (videos about tuning 'em up on Youtube) and I get the blade good and sharp.
Slightest sign of tearing wood and I reach for the rasps.
Del
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I have a cheap spokeshave that I bought for $5 on eBay. It actually works really well. It cuts a really nice thin shaving. I use it for rough tillering, when a draw knife is too aggressive and a scraper is too slow.
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Make sure you know how to sharpen your scraper. A good sharp scraper will take wood off almost as fast as a spoke shave. I've measured the shavings and my scraper will take off .010" shavings.
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2X what DC said. A good spoke shave will work on some wood configurations, but a properly sharpened scraper and the correct rasp for the job will always work. A scraper is an amazing tool when correctly sharpened.
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Some of think a long handled paint scraper filed to a sharp edge works well. Takes a much bigger shaving than a card scraper and is easier to use.
For me, it's band saw, rasps and then scraper. Sometimes I will use my spoke shave a little on the sides of the limbs. I also use a broken sanding belt to round the handle and sand the fades (hold the back of the belt down with my thumb while pulling the belt with my other hand. It's great fro concave surfaces.)
Jim Davis
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thanks Jim, that sounds good
so I guess, my next tools will be a long handled paint scraper, draw knife and hatchet
...and maybe another rasp, the bigger shinto or a ferrier's..
I just rub/burnish the edge of my card scrapers with a nail punch, creating a burr. after filing it. Good enough?
My next projects will be:
reducing up to 3/4" of thickness and a little width on my Mead Longbows 'horsebow' kit handle
Maybe some shaping of tepeliks (horn bow bending blocks) (fir), or making new ones from pine
long red oak D bow
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thanks Jim, that sounds good
so I guess, my next tools will be a long handled paint scraper, draw knife and hatchet
...and maybe another rasp, the bigger shinto or a ferrier's..
I just rub/burnish the edge of my card scrapers with a nail punch, creating a burr. after filing it. Good enough?
My next projects will be:
reducing up to 3/4" of thickness and a little width on my Mead Longbows 'horsebow' kit handle
Maybe some shaping of tepeliks (horn bow bending blocks) (fir), or making new ones from pine
long red oak D bow
If your scraper takes a nice even curl and you can actually feel it cutting it's probably good. If it just skates along and takes very fine fluffy shavings it needs work. I just about ruined a good yew stave with a spoke shave because it worked so fast. But that wasn't the tools fault :-[ :-[ :-[
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There are buildalongs on my site where tool use is discussed.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/
Jawge
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You can do all that with a rasp and scraper. I've spent a lot of money for bow building over the years and I still just use a draw knife, farriers rasp, #49 rasp, chainsaw file and a scraper with the #49 and the scraper only after floor tiller and scraper only for final tiller. I never had luck with a spoke shave except on yew and ERC and for the bows I build a plane has no place on my work bench.
Same here minus the yew and erc...haven't gotten a chance to play with either of those woods yet. I do have a Swinton rasp that does work well flattening a limb but I can accomplish the same with a rasp.
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All the highly experienced bowyer have given the advice, but here's my 2 cents. Living in an apartment building, I don't have excess to big power tools. So for my, the spoke shave is one of the most useable tools. I use it to remove wood, shape the profile, handle and tip and since I like to make BBI's- it's one of the best ways to flatten bamboo for backing. I got a cheap spoke shave from Ebay- easily one of the best purchases I've made. Just keep it sharp. Along with it I use a large rasp (I guess a farrier's would be best) and a scraper.
Hope this helps.
Dor
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I would add my shave horse to the list. That and a draw knife makes a great team.
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I hit the Good Will stores & pick up long handled paint scrapers also use a scraper plane that I love .
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For me, a really sharp Jack plane is useful in getting rid of tool marks and trueing edges ready for the rasp -so I use hatchet, draw knife, plane, rasp and scraper
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What's a Swinton rasp?! I meant Shinto!! ;D
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Another here has before suggested the dreadnought file; I've tried it, and it's a very useful tool. I also get a lot of use out of draw knives and spokeshaves, not so much from rasps (shinto included) and scrapers - but still have them on hand. On board bows, I use the plane quite a bit.
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My Stave Master bowyer's bench and my 14", 1hp bandsaw are both very helpful but not necessary...at least they didn't used to be. ;)
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Anyone else use a surform plane? I just started using one, and it does a great job of removing wood to get to the bending stage. I've never used a farriers rasp, I'm curious if those will remove wood just as fast as the surform.
Eric
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If I had to chose only 2 tools, they would be a draw knife and a belt sander. From stave to finished bow, those 2 will get the job done. Probably next would be a heat gun. Every bow I make any more is tempered not to mention bending and straightening. I use a rasp some, scrapers, calipers, but I could get by without them.
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To answer your question, loon, no.
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Can't live without my axe:)
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Even though I use my band saw and belt sander a lot for now, I'm trying to stop using them for possible health reasons. I will be using tools that make wood shavings instead of dust.
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To answer your question, loon, no.
nyes? no what? the card scraper sharpening?
i figured, the scrapes are rather fluffy
meh i'll just get a spokeshave and try a paint scraper sharpened. are they sharpened the same as card scrapers?? they seem too bendy to push through wood... so i guess they would be pulled, just like card scrapers. maybe i should just make a handle for a card scraper
and eventually a hatchet. or a machete.. that could double as a drawknife :p
A machete actually sounds like it could be better than an axe, more controllable?
seems like a large gouge could be perfect for making tepeliks concave, and maybe for hld (concave belly) bows
current tools: shinto rasp, gyokucho razor saw (could work for roughing out, may be slower than hatchet/machete though), chisels, card scrapers, drill, vise.. and (edit) a rounded rasp, tekton
(https://i.imgur.com/MepxpF1.jpg)
it took forever to make the tepelik surface concave with this rasp, probably because it is a curved surface and fir is ridiculously hard, should've used pine
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I use this cheap Nicholson woodcraft rasp to do almost all of my handle shaping. It's half round and works great on the fades and contoured handle. I'll use a couple of smoother files to clean it up. If you want to put a good edge on your scraper check out the post in the how to section. It's on one of the last few pages I think.
(http://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/afb125d00653a64e_4-3641/filing-cabinets.jpg)
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Here is a link to the scraper sharpening post.
https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,1237.0.html
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thanks, adding a Mill Bastard file to wish list..
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like my spoke shave, but I have to admit that it has had the sole slightly radiused (front to back) and the blade radiused (side to side) to keep the corners away from the work. takes a bit to get the hang of it also. Like my shinto almost as much as one of those high dollar rasps, and a big half round bastard file get used a lot. (it has never touched a piece of metal)
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You asked if you should get a spoke shave or plane. My reply was, nope. You wont use either. A scraper, a rasp or two and a sanding block will build and shape any part of any bow.
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You need different kind of tools. The is no one "magic" tool, which suites to all tasks. For board bows and clear staves cutting tools are just great and comfortable to use. With good axe, hand plane (bench plane no. 2 or 3) and/or spoke shave you can do anything you want. I have fine-tillered many bows with spoke shave only, so no scraper. In fact, after buying a good (and expensive...) spoke shave I don't need scaper so much. With sharp spoke shave you can cut as thin shaves as with scraper. But the cutting tools have to have a very sharp blade, otherwise they are useless.
A (thick) scraper is valuable tool when you have knots or irregular grain or very dense and hard wood. I prefer scraper when tillering ipe-bellied laminates, when hand plane or spoke shave would tear wood.
I need rasps occasionally, usually when I have very problematic knot or something like that. Tillering with rasps is tricky in my opinion. And it makes a lot of mess and dust. There are many kind of rasps - traditional rasp, shinto rasp, surform, microplane or iwasaki rasp (like a float). After using all of them, I prefer iwasaki rasp. It is relative cheap, fast and produces very fine surface. You can use scraper after iwasaki, which is unusual with other types of rasps.
With soft woods I prefer cutting tools and hard woods I use cutting tools always when possible and if not, then non-cutting tools, i.e. rasps and scraper. So, the best tools depends what you are doing, and where. For tillering, I like the spoke shave, iwasaki rasp and scraper is the best trio. But you do not know it before you have tried...
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I just looked up your iwasaki rasps/files; they're the same as what I know as dreadnought files; they go by a few other names too; they're very, very useful tools.
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I don't use all that many tools anymore. I use different tools if I am doing a laminated bows as opposed to an osage stave.
Osage, draw knife, chain saw file, #49 rasp, scraper.
English longbows from staves, draw knife and or spoke shave, 49 rasp, scraper, chain saw file
Whitewoods and boards I often use a spokeshave in addition to the other tools
Backed ipe board laminated, mostly a rasp and a scraper.