Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Del the cat on September 20, 2016, 12:03:37 pm
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I've done 2 videos so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5-fbKl33OU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5-fbKl33OU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4p4W6of4c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4p4W6of4c)
This pic is before I eased off that right limb which is a bit stiff just right of centre limb, and just right of grip.
It's back to 150# at 26" now, maybe some more tomorrow, I'll get the outers coming round some more. :)
Del
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Good going Del, that looks a pretty nice stave too.. what length do you have on that stave?
Looking forward to seeing progress, and good tip on drawing it to the intended weight throughout tillering, thanks.
Ruddy.
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Good going Del, that looks a pretty nice stave too.. what length do you have on that stave?
Looking forward to seeing progress, and good tip on drawing it to the intended weight throughout tillering, thanks.
Ruddy.
78 1/4 " ntn.
Nice stave, only problems are the grain is slightly diagonal, sapwood is a good bit thicker on one limb and a wicked undulation/knot near the end of the right limb, mind that will be a cool bit of character when it's finished if it doesn't explode. There's a bit of blue grey discolouration on it too in one patch, but it feels pretty sound.
Del
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Nice length...should be a right punchy bow if you get near that weight. Best of luck with it.
Ruddy
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Damn, what a thick piece of wood! Del, is any difference between tillering the warbow and tillering stiff handled bows? I mean, in regard to the rule you pointed out "always pull to the intended draw weight, see if it has even bend".
Also I didn't understood what you said about long string? Something about if its on that and that, then it is that on that? Yeah it sounds like gibberish, but didn't know how else to ask.
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Tillering a warbow is same as any other bow except, you can't floor tiller it. If you can get it to flex on the floor, you are already under weight!
If you are using a long string (only just long enough to get on the bow) then the distance it pulls will be roughly the same as when its braced.
There was a long thread about this ages ago and someone pointed it out... may have been Badger?
Example...
Long string pulls down to the 20" mark at 100#
Brace the bow... it will be about 100# at 20"
Obviously this won't work if the long string is dangling down with 20" of slack! :laugh:
Del
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Nice to see you doing something heavy. Looks like there is still a lot of wood to come off. Are you taking note of physical weight?
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Looking good Del
What is the center width and depth?
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Yes that is what I asked. Very interesting that long string and at the brace show practically same draw weight. This is definitely eye opener for me now, I'll use that reference in future.
Am I right to assume this bow would be thinner if it was Alpine Yew? And when starts process of applying horns?
P.S.
Few days ago I made double pulley, really strong, tiller tree so I am ready for the warbows. That is why I must read and ask everything.
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Nice to see you doing something heavy. Looks like there is still a lot of wood to come off. Are you taking note of physical weight?
Nope... it weighs what it weighs.
However if anyone cares to predict what a 150# full compass Warbow of 78 1/4" ntn should weigh, I'll check it at the end.
Much as I admire the work that has been put into the mass theory, it's not the way I work.
Del
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Yes that is what I asked. Very interesting that long string and at the brace show practically same draw weight. This is definitely eye opener for me now, I'll use that reference in future.
Am I right to assume this bow would be thinner if it was Alpine Yew? And when starts process of applying horns?
P.S.
Few days ago I made double pulley, really strong, tiller tree so I am ready for the warbows. That is why I must read and ask everything.
I wouldn't make any assumptions about Yew based on it's ring thickness, colour, country of origin, altitude it was grown at etc.
I only use the long string thing on Warbows, I don't think its accurate or appropriate on lighter bows it is very useful on warbows as they are very difficult to brace early on.
Del
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Looking good Del
What is the center width and depth?
42.2 x 38.7mm
But I'll let you know when it's finished! :laugh:
Del
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Yes that is what I asked. Very interesting that long string and at the brace show practically same draw weight. This is definitely eye opener for me now, I'll use that reference in future.
Am I right to assume this bow would be thinner if it was Alpine Yew? And when starts process of applying horns?
P.S.
Few days ago I made double pulley, really strong, tiller tree so I am ready for the warbows. That is why I must read and ask everything.
I wouldn't make any assumptions about Yew based on it's ring thickness, colour, country of origin, altitude it was grown at etc.
I only use the string thing on Warbows, I don't think its accurate or appropriate on lighter bows it is very useful on warbows as they are very difficult to brace early on.
Del
That is a stout stick Del!
Any bow will show accurate draw weight readings on the long string versus braced. the weight doesn't matter. It's quite handy really :)
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Yes that is what I asked. Very interesting that long string and at the brace show practically same draw weight. This is definitely eye opener for me now, I'll use that reference in future.
Am I right to assume this bow would be thinner if it was Alpine Yew? And when starts process of applying horns?
P.S.
Few days ago I made double pulley, really strong, tiller tree so I am ready for the warbows. That is why I must read and ask everything.
I wouldn't make any assumptions about Yew based on it's ring thickness, colour, country of origin, altitude it was grown at etc.
I only use the string thing on Warbows, I don't think its accurate or appropriate on lighter bows it is very useful on warbows as they are very difficult to brace early on.
Del
That is a stout stick Del!
Any bow will show accurate draw weight readings on the long string versus braced. the weight doesn't matter. It's quite handy really :)
Yeah, it's one of those things I learned late, but I'm happy to keep learning... With lighter bows I just like to get to brace early as IMO it gives a truer view of the tiller.
Getting this sucker to brace is a right palaver with the winch rope and the tiller rope both going through the pulley and Emily Cat patting at the loose ends :laugh: . She wanders through the workshop sharpening her claws on my target boss and looking for spiders like she owns the place... mind if she's in there when a bow explodes it will curb her enthusiasm >:D
Del
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What is the easiest way to brace heavy weight bows? Btw, is that bow for you, i.e. will you shoot it or is intended for someone else?
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What is the easiest way to brace heavy weight bows?
I'd say the answer is two people and a stringer.
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I've found having a stringer that is as short as possible so it only just fits on, (I use two old bowstrings tied together.), then bend from the knees with one foot on the string while gripping the bow (with body weight on that foot) and just stand up keeping back straight and slip the top loop on with the other hand. I find it relatively easy this way, in fact I don't reckon there is a bow I can't string like this. Do all the work with the legs.
(Oh..I also have the bow on a angle with top nock higher than the bottom one as I lift up, this makes it easier to slip the loop on.)
Ruddy.
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What is the easiest way to brace heavy weight bows? Btw, is that bow for you, i.e. will you shoot it or is intended for someone else?
Once it's finished, a stringer (long string with a loop at each end, one foot on the stringer, pull and slide the real string into place)
At this stage it's more like a 190# bow so I use my winch too pull down on the stringer rope, as I don't want to damage my back. Stringing heavy shorter bows isn't so bad, but heavy long ones is a bit of a reach.
Like Ruddy Darter says, use your legs, but it's still easy to twist your back as you reach over to slip the string on.
Del
Every man is his own safety officer!
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That is pure deadlifting there. Shorten the stringer and make legs and lower back do all the work. Did archers in medieval times use stringer or did they use stepping through method?
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Don't think anyone actually knows how they strung their warbows in medieval times, there will doubtless be plenty of people only too keen to offer their opinion though! ::)
Del
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My opinion is that they had stringers, and as horns have been eaten away throughout years we can't know if they had additional stringer groove or not. Although I think there were few surviving horns that serve as evidence of side nocks but they don't have additional groove.
Maybe they did step through method?
Are you gonna put side nocks or normal nocks on this bow Del?
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It will have normal nocks, but clean simple tidy ones in pale horn.
It's coming back to 28" now and ready for the horn nocks.
Video here:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ls4kK_dwqU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ls4kK_dwqU)
And here's a still, needs the right limb easing off, but that will happen when I fit the nocks. :)
BTW. I won't be shooting it 90# is about my limit these days.
Del
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That's coming on very nice Del 8).
Ruddy.
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Its very interesting to me how right limb is thicker then the left one and bends much more, except in that middle area. Probably has to do with slight deflex like you said in one of the videos you posted, Del.
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... With lighter bows I just like to get to brace early as IMO it gives a truer view of the tiller
I have been using a four point bend rather than the traditional three point bend with the long string. the resulting curve is much closer to what it would be if braced, allowing me to progress much further with tillering before bracing. I damaged a few bows by bracing too early.
Anchoring the spreader to the wall with a couple of bolts might be prudent for a heavy warbow. Balancing it on the tiller tree seat has issues, even with a lighter bow. the stave in the pic was wonky from the tree, btw
Stalker, I have had good luck leaving the stave a bit long, and cutting temporary nocks outboard of the finish tips for easy stringing with a stringer. In fact I do it with all my bows now, not just the heavy ones.
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When do you make final corrections, I mean, narrowing the tips and so on?
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When do you make final corrections, I mean, narrowing the tips and so on?
Today! ;)
That's when I have the proper horn nocks on, the tips get blended into the limb from a 1/2" round section where it enters the horn for about an 8 - 10" length. I hate when people do a sharp taper over about an inch down to a hon nock... makes it look like the end of a pencil and adds a lot of weight.
Hope fully more pics later today as I tease it back towards 32"
The right limb is only a whisker thicker now, and is a little stiff, it may well all look "right" when it's finished, but maybe I'll reverse it and have the right limb as the lower, that's all part of that final tweaking.
I daresay someone could argue that if I'd made it accurately "by numbers" it would have come out right to start with >:D... but that's their call. To my mind you don't know what the numbers are until it's finished. I'll take some measurements and post 'em when it's finally finished so we can see how close the limbs are.
Del
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Nocks are on now and I've got it back another 2 inches.
Final clean up with a scraper and easing off any thick spots, corners etc will bring it home to 32"
All I'll need then is someone who can shoot it.
Out of interest, I can almost string it with a stringer now, but don't want to risk my back, it's the reaching out to slip the nock on that's the problem. It would be easy with two people.
I've had another idea which I probably won't try for fear of my back...
Very long stringer bow across the shoulders, feet on stringer, knees bent, back straight. Straighten the knees, slide the loop on at a convenient height with a nice straight back.
Del
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But it's a whole lot closer to your head if it explodes :o :o
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...that'll hurt if it slips off your shoulders, I don't think I would try it..
That looks pretty good to me Del 8), looks like it will be a great arrow chucker, stocky and powerful.
Ruddy.
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Final video with it finished:-
https://youtu.be/ymeTUEUWMAA (https://youtu.be/ymeTUEUWMAA)
And a full draw pic (note arrow plate added)
Del
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Very nice Del, great bow. 8)
I reckon you managed to get the maximum from that stave.
Ruddy.
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Absolutely cracking bow mate and your posts and videos are a really great resource for all us strivers! :)
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Don't think anyone actually knows how they strung their warbows in medieval times, there will doubtless be plenty of people only too keen to offer their opinion though! ::)
Del
Everyone credible knows they used short guys to string the bows. The archer held the bow parallel to the ground and a guy on each end would grab a hold of the tip. When the archer lifted, the combined weight of the two shorties would begin to bend the warbow. The one on the upper limb would let go with one hand and slide up the loop to the proper position in the nock and shout, "Strung, you daft bugger, lemme down NOW!"
I have references here somewhere...
Meanwhile I am gonna go watch the videos again. Turned out pretty nice, as usual, Mr. H. Cheers!
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Don't think anyone actually knows how they strung their warbows in medieval times, there will doubtless be plenty of people only too keen to offer their opinion though! ::)
Del
Everyone credible knows they used short guys to string the bows. The archer held the bow parallel to the ground and a guy on each end would grab a hold of the tip. When the archer lifted, the combined weight of the two shorties would begin to bend the warbow. The one on the upper limb would let go with one hand and slide up the loop to the proper position in the nock and shout, "Strung, you daft bugger, lemme down NOW!"
I have references here somewhere...
Meanwhile I am gonna go watch the videos again. Turned out pretty nice, as usual, Mr. H. Cheers!
I'm glad that's been cleared up :laugh:
Del
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I love the fished shape on that bow Del, good job!
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Very nice indeed Mr Del. ;) That is a rather stout stick.
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Very nice indeed Mr Del. ;) That is a rather stout stick.
Cheers, my mate JT will be able to speak softly if he's carrying that :)
Del
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Great videos of the tillering of that yew.Mezmerising tiller.
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man oh man! That was a pleasure to watch. Its so cool seeing a bow come to life.