Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Horn Bows => Topic started by: mikekeswick on August 28, 2016, 02:26:41 am
-
I'm just tillering a new Turkish flight bow. It is going to be around 70 -75#, has plenty of reflex and a weight of 320 grams :) Non matching belly/horn grooves, 5 piece rowan core with hornbeam handle and ash tips. Buffalo and deer leg sinew.
It has mega early string tension and draw weight......hopefully it will make it to full draw!
Pictures to follow.
-
woah
yay non matching! matching just sounds like too much work for not enough gain, though maybe you have to apply less glue?
Good luck!
-
I'm just curious what's wrong with non matching horn belly groves thought they where just a small percentage less strong joint ?
-
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/mikekeswick/SAM_0663.jpg) (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/mikekeswick/media/SAM_0663.jpg.html)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/mikekeswick/SAM_0662.jpg) (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/mikekeswick/media/SAM_0662.jpg.html)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/mikekeswick/SAM_0667_Moment.jpg) (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/mikekeswick/media/SAM_0667_Moment.jpg.html)
The first picture is with my Turkish warbow to show the difference in shape. The 2nd is it braced and the 3rd is at about 22 inches. Full draw on this one will be 27/28.
Force/draw on this to 22 is - 21#@10 , 31#@12 , 39#@14 , 46#@16 , 50#@18 , 55#@20 , 61#@22
The bow is 43 1/2 inches.
-
Wow, looks great Mike!
-
Thanks Aaron.
The non matching grooves/matching grooves thing isn't really about extra glueline strength. Not one of the old bows had matching grooves so you have to ask yourself why they made them with non matching grooves (it was nothing to do with time to make them). The properties of dried glue mean that stiffness-wise it is inbtween the wood cores stiffness and the horns stiffness. So when you do the glue-up and both sets of grooves are filled with glue the dried glue basically becomes a 'medium' between the two materials with 'teeth' extending into both surfaces and therefore making the transition between materials less defined.
this bow has been to 26 now and it behaving itself very well. No stability 'issues', limb strengths relative one to the other are staying stable. I'm hoping to get out at the weekend with my flight arrows and seeing what she will do. Fingers crossed for 400yds + :)
-
Mike, I think you nailed the tiller for that profile. I am very much looming forward to seeing some performance numbers from it.
-
Hey, you are holding out on us. I want that all the way back full draw pic!
-
Looks great, I would shoot it at the shorter draw with an over draw. Shortest arrow you can get away with.
-
Sleek i'll try and get a friend to take a full draw photo. I'm not holding this thing at full draw waiting for a timer!!!
Badger - I'm off out tomorrow to test it at my place for flight shooting. I have high hopes! I've got a wide range of flight arrows now and will try to get some shots off with them all and record the distances. When you say an 'overdraw' are there any simple designs that you can 'fit' to a bow? I'm not ready to use a siper yet.
-
Damn you! You're making me want to try one on these >:( ;)
Looks great.
Del
-
Mike that bow is lookin great. A Turkish flight bow will be the first wood core horn bow I attempt.
I have all the ingredients, but am second guessing my yew core.
-
Great bow and pics Mike and showing of your progession in poundage.She loads up a bunch early man.A 6.3 ratio mass to draw weight says it should shoot fantastic.The tillering peg board is the way I would like to tiller mine.Did you use tepliks still yet though to get that far to the board?
-
Seeing better here I see your training your left limb to bend a little more to better tiller with the inner tube band.How long can that take to come around good for ya?Imagine then you'll start shooting it some.
Keep us posted man.
-
Mike,
Will you take me on as an apprentice? I promise I won't turn to the dark side
-
Del - do it! I'll help you if needed. These bows are nuts....
Wizard - Thanks man, just make sure your core is flawless, no pins, no grain swirls etc....I wish I could find good enough yew here but flawless yew is a rare beast round here.
Beadman - Thanks, she sure does load up early! It is unlike any other bow I have made. The tube is get the balance between limbs at this point the left limb was just a bit stronger so instead of removing material i'm just letting it 'sweat' a bit. It depends on how bad the imbalance is but normally just a few minutes is enough.
Dictionary - Haha! What is this 'darkside' of which you speak!?
I managed to get out yesterday for a bit of flight shooting with this bow.
Conditions weren't ideal and the bow started to show a little twist on the lower limb for some reason when I took it to full draw. I had no heat source so couldn't fix it where I was....therefore most shots were at about 23/24 inch draw. It has a heavy tillering string on it at the moment as well.
The best shots were around 320yds.
This gives me hope for a properly drawn arrow to go a good way further. Next weekend I will have all the small issues sorted out and will let some fly!
The bow starts to stack at about 25 ish so there will be a good weigh gain in the last few inches. It shows little string follow even after being strung all afternoon.
I want to plot the force/draw curve as this bow feels unlike any other I have made with very high initial tension then a definite 'let off' through the mid draw then a fairly stiff ramp up for the last few inches.
I have high hopes for this bow.
-
It's the sinew that puts me off, I've got some red deer leg sinew (from Highland horn), but the prep' seemed such a pain and the fibres weren't very long. When I see the Oriental guys on youtube they have lovely long sinew.
Any pointers for decent sinew in the UK would be appreciated.
Del
-
Sweeet Mike.Sounds like a real ripper!!!!!.That is unreal the overdraw your gonna get from that bow.That's putting the composites to work I'd say....lol.Gotta perform like a champ for sure.Nice bow and with not any major problems too.All natural materials too!!!!.
My composite hickory although 60" long has the same type of progession in poundage.A lot early/level off midway/then begin to ramp up to full draw.Pretty sweeet.Lately the bow has been stored in about 45% humidity a few weeks and I can tell it is performing even better than when first made.A pound or two more poundage too then of course.For hunting here it's what I want.A 52# bow performing like a higher poundage bow.I don't really know how what poundage bow it performs at really though.Somewhere in the 60#s range I'm sure.Maybe close to 70#'s.Not sure.A 600 grain arrow @ 175 fps @ 51#'s.I don't have a formula for that....lol.
Del....I've got these 12" to 16" strands I get from elk legs.Could send you a few tendons.A normal tendon will yield around 400 grains.Would a person run into a problem there?
-
PM sent.
Del
-
Aw, good luck with the twist. Can you make a video of yourself correcting it please?
Backstrap sinew is longer... can buy cattle sinew from some places. It's expensive..
Mistakes I made when processing - rough surfaces, being impatient and pounding too hard?, pounding or ripping the sinew apart when wet
-
If I remember I will but i'm off to the Isle of Skye for some well needed rest and relaxation. Sunshine, climbing and fishing :)
When I get back i'll be shooting this bow properly at full draw and will post the results :)
I've also got a few more hornbows ready to be shot.....:)
-
So I got this bow straight and had a perfect weather day yesterday. My best shots were around 400yds and the best of the best at about 420yds. I still have the heavy tillering string on which will make a difference. I am still only getting to about 24/25 inches with this as it is quite a bear near full draw....think I need to do some training to shoot this bow properly ;)
-
I made a new 10 strand B50 string and shot some 5gpp arrows through the chrono, bow drawn to about 26/27 inches. Average of around 250fps with two of low 270's fps.
-
That is absolutely setting those fletching on fire! Crap! Of course, you know, i got to try to build one in wood that will do that.... hopefully that light an arrow wont be too much like dry firing a bow.
-
I remember your dance when you broke 200, what are you going to do for 270?????
-
Its a spontaneous thing. Hopefully i wont have been listening to Jimmy Hendrix that day.
-
That's a zippin for sure Mike and just think you hav'nt even come to 29" yet.300 is out there.
-
What are pulling for poundage then?Around 75#'s maybe?
-
Im am really looking forward to numbers at 30 inches.
-
This bows max draw is going to be 28. It isn't showing much strain after unstringing so maybe it could be drawn further...but not by me! I need to hit the push ups to be able to handle it easily. Shooting light flight arrows requires a perfect release (thumbring helps here) and the ability to shoot more weight....
-
So, mike ol buddy ol pal, when you gonna make me one? :D
-
Just make one out of osage.....;)
-
;D
-
Mike,
You have a couple really nice bows in the pic.
Is it 43.5 inches NTN?
When you give draw weights do you measure to the belly or back of the bow?
-
Yes that measurement is from ntn and the poundage is to the back of the bow.
-
Excellent performance from that bow, you definitely have a candidate for a world record in the Turkish or complex composite classes. I am amazed at the speeds you are getting with 5 grains per pound. 250 fps with 4 grains per pound is the best I have ever gotten with wood. I have hit in the 290's but with very light arrows like under 3 grains per pound.
-
Thanks Badger. I would love to come out to the Salt Flats but things have got in the way for the last few years. Yes this bow is pretty much smokin fast! I feel there is more to be got out of it because it is equilibrated at 60 - 70% humidity. If I condidtioned it , its physical weight would drop, it would get stiffer and the reflex would increase....of course all this stuff won't make a massive difference but it will make some.
-
I guess I should go out and shoot my horn bow.. I haven't because humidity is around 60-80% lately, no AC here. Still need to untwist it :\
You're making me think of a Turkish bow one day. Though something I've daydreamed of making is a Korean warbow.. (much wider wider & i'd want it with less reflex than the target bows)
Do you shoot with torque/"khatra"? how's the thumbring stuff going?
Thanks for sharing & your help
-
Very nice looking bow
-
Your bow should be fine shooting in that humidity. You just need to keep it drier inbetween exposing it to high humidity. The thumbring is starting to feel much better now, I've finally made one that fits perfectly and I've adjusted my 'aim' after shooting with Mediterranean loose. A Turkish bow should be gripped most firmly with the lower three fingers, the index finger and thumb shouldn't be tensed at all. when you do this the bow moves upon shooting by itself with no need to concentrate particularly on performing khatra. I do twist my drawing hand index finger onto the shaft a little at full draw. I have learnt most of the actual shooting style for these bows from watching abdulkabza on youtube. Also from reading Adam Swodoba (spelling!?) excellent book and Saracen archery.
Good luck making a Korean bow :)
Thanks selfbow joe.