Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: BowEd on August 25, 2016, 01:53:38 pm
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From what I've read and tried in the past in spining arrows the stiffest part goes against the bow.I want to shoot these arrows off a 48# bow.If on one side of the shaft it says 50# and the opposite side it says 42# will it fly good?I'm making hazel shoot arrows.Lighter mass weight wise than dogwood by quite a bit but has a good enough of a stiff spine & weight for good arrows.Ending up with arrows around 100 grains less then dogwood.
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From what I've read and tried in the past in spining arrows the stiffest part goes against the bow.I want to shoot these arrows off a 48# bow.If on one side of the shaft it says 50# and the opposite side it says 42# will it fly good?I'm making hazel shoot arrows.Lighter mass weight wise than dogwood by quite a bit but has a good enough of a stiff spine & weight for good arrows.Ending up with arrows around 100 grains less then dogwood.
Oh I'm using FF string so spine needs to be about 5# stiffer then B50.
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I don't know Ed, I was going to ask you same thing. Also should weak side always go away or could it go up or down? I'm guessing away but not sure.
Bjrogg
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Some people make bamboo arrows that are meant to be shot nocked either way..
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Ed, I always put the stiff side against the bow. Other than that I don't normally use a spine tester.
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What's your arrow length and how heavy is the point?
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For wood/dowel shafts I think I'd just make it so the grain goes against the bow, should be stiffer there and less likely to be split by the string? Now, if flipped 180 degrees, why would it be less stiff...
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Why put stiffest side against bow? If spine you want is achieved by using weaker side of shaft, why not put that side against bow?
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Arrow length is 30".28" draw.The hazel are tapered some too.23/64" to 11/32".I've put 145 grain points on to take spine down a little farther and to beef up overall mass weight.Been waiting on rehydrating a bow that they are for from heat treatment/reflexing and got bored.Don't figure bow to be much more than 48#'s.It might surprise me though.Started making a small set of 1/2 dozen hazels for it.Spined 45 to 50 pounds.Might go with 125 grain points if bow has an increased draw weight.Don't want to cut nock in shafts till bow is ready to shoot.
Been on an ambition to make shafts out of a lot of different woods this summer.Walnut,honey locust,ash,& maple.Hav'nt tried black locust & hickory yet.Tried osage years ago[too heavy and weak of spine].Shoot arrows hazel is the latest.Tried dogwood and sourwood. Top of the list for my bows' draw weight are
Douglas fir and walnut.Shoot shafts dogwood and sourwood and maybe hazel now too.
Made some multiflora rose shafts too successfully.
As far as bamboo goes tonkin worked great for me.No cane yet.
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Yes loon the reed side goes against the bow.Not the rift.
Knoll...that's what I'm wondering?????Were talking shoot shafts now so there is no reed or rift to it.Just a little tree shot off a bigger tree.....lol.
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For dowels the edge grain goes against the bow but for safety sake the grain "flames" should point forward so that usually leaves only one side.
I learned about putting the stiff side against the bow from Art Butner(artcher1). Art is the best, by far, arrow maker I've ever known and a very generous person to boot. He taught me how to make cane, sourwood shoot arrows and snaky arrows but he also totally hand made doweled arrows with hand tools,even the 4 point footings and self nocks.
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i always put the stiff side against the bow. But I only make cane and bamboo most of the time. Cedar shafts I put the runoff aginst the bow.
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For wood/dowel shafts I think I'd just make it so the grain goes against the bow, should be stiffer there and less likely to be split by the string? Now, if flipped 180 degrees, why would it be less stiff...
I think your right the opposite side is typically the same stiffness.....
DBar
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Why put stiffest side against bow? If spine you want is achieved by using weaker side of shaft, why not put that side against bow?
I think it has something to do with the release......the fingers rolling the string and putting bend into the arrow at release....with the stiffer side against the bow the effect is less on the arrow to bend
DBar
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So on cane, would the weak side be the one that has the branches come out at the nodes? I got to put the branch of the closest node to the nock facing up from the Koppedrayer's bamboo arrows book..
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On cane the leaves are opposite each other as you move down the shaft. Most of the time the weak side is the side the leaf (scar) is on. Therefore, putting the leaf scar top and bottom the stiff side is against the bow.
DBar
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Thanks, it all makes sense now, though, like Knoll, I still don't understand why the stiff side rather than the one matching the spine better.. the reason may be too complicated :P
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Ed .....to try and answer your first question...
I have spine tested a lot of shafts ...mostly cane and boo and have found the difference between the weak and strong side not to very a whole lot in poundage. I have also found that the best shooting arrows have hardly no difference. Therefore, I would say it most likely would not shoot good and kick coming off the bow no matter what you do.
Again this is just my experience.
DBar
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I don't know why, but I believe it. Every time I bare shaft test they always shoot better stiff side to the bow. I always shoot them bare shaft before I fletch to see which way they shoot best. Sometimes they will fly perfect one side, flip them over and they fly sideways
Bjrogg
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I'm a firm believer in bare shaft tuning..... ;)
DBar
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If you go to Easton's sight I watched a video of aluminum arrows released in slow motion. It looked like when the fingers rolled off the string towards the center of the bow, the arrow would bend a little. As it recovered the weak side would bend an unbelievable amount around the handle and then wobble and slowly recover leaving the bow.
I think the weak side away from the handle allows it to bend around the handle easier. Thus, why you see stiff and weak arrows with the knock leaning to the right or the left in the target.
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I've also noticed that Tonkin shafts there is little difference with the clean, ground down, carmelized shafts selling on ebay. But the raw shafts have a stiff side. Also, cane does vary a lot.
And, I don't have a spine tester but do know how to find the stiff side on cane and bamboo.
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Eddie,
Do you roll the shaft as it's bending to find the stiff side?
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I've also noticed that Tonkin shafts there is little difference with the clean, ground down, carmelized shafts selling on ebay. But the raw shafts have a stiff side. Also, cane does vary a lot.
And, I don't have a spine tester but do know how to find the stiff side on cane and bamboo.
I agree with you on the Tonkin bought online....that's why they tend to shoot better. River cane does vary more.
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Thanks for all the comments and insight fellas.It was a serious question.I too have spine tested many shafts.I'll see what happens bare shaft tuning these hazel shafts.I had 8 dried and ready to make.Made first one for OO for an arrow trade swap and honestly it shot as good without feathers as it did with feathers.Like a dart.Stuck straight into target at 15 yards right where I was looking.Tilted up slightly.Perfect.I am impressed about hazel.Shafts like that I usually only will put minimal amount of feathers on for myself. 4 to 4.5 inch feathers.Lots of dogwoods have done this for me too though.
What mullet said about Easton's video makes sense and what Danznbar said about the balanced spine on both sides of shaft I agree with too.What Pat said I realized about the feathered rift pointing towards me on the hand for safety's sake and would of liked to have met Art too.
One shaft I took too much wood off and it came in too weak.Another just plain broke straightening it.The 5 I have left came in right in spine and mass weight.I'll know what to do once this wait gets over on this bow and know it's finished poundage.
The side view straight bow with 2.5" flipped tips was tillered to 20" and estimated then @ 45#'s @ 28".If it holds half the extra induced reflex and rests at 4" the poundage will go up a bit.An extra 1.5" reflex.How much I don't know yet.I could have very well jumped the gun making these shafts before the bow was finished.Oh well it's fun playing the matching game anyway.I'll cut some more otherwise and start over....ha ha.
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If you go to Easton's sight I watched a video of aluminum arrows released in slow motion. It looked like when the fingers rolled off the string towards the center of the bow, the arrow would bend a little. As it recovered the weak side would bend an unbelievable amount around the handle and then wobble and slowly recover leaving the bow.
I think the weak side away from the handle allows it to bend around the handle easier. Thus, why you see stiff and weak arrows with the knock leaning to the right or the left in the target.
Thanks.
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If you go to Easton's sight I watched a video of aluminum arrows released in slow motion. It looked like when the fingers rolled off the string towards the center of the bow, the arrow would bend a little. As it recovered the weak side would bend an unbelievable amount around the handle and then wobble and slowly recover leaving the bow.
I think the weak side away from the handle allows it to bend around the handle easier. Thus, why you see stiff and weak arrows with the knock leaning to the right or the left in the target.
I don't get it... do you have a link or remember the title?
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Glad to read this, I had wondered the same thing, I'd also agree that the best shafts for me have been the ones with a difference of only a few pounds from one side to the other. I have stopped trying to bare shaft and then tune each arrow; I found a thick ess that works best for my hickory bow and then churn out quite a few shafts, probably 8 out of 12 are already good with a few being to strong which I save for when I manage to make a 50# plus bow
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Yes making dogwoods most times is like that too.They all don't make it....lol.
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I still haven't tried a shoot shaft, do you a favorite for shoot shafts? I know we are looking at the same terrain, took your advice on the walnut and it has been my favorite so far possibly my best option for what's available to me in the sawmill
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I believe any of the bush type dogwoods make good arrows. I use sourwood and I have used a few types of viburnum. Privet makes a good arrow too.
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Lumberman....Yea walnut suits me great here too.Ash is very very close.Better for higher poundage bows really.Above 60 pounds.Shoot shafts are more time consuming until a person harvests them at the right diameter.That saves some time.Shoot shafts in general are susceptable to warpage a little more than split shafts of douglas fir,walnut,or spruce,but I believe most shoot shafts a tougher in general.Bamboo is some tough stuff too.The other and probably main thing about shoot shafts and bamboo is the natural overall forgiving taper they have for matching bows.
Pat B....I have not tried viburnum or privet yet but am sure I'd like em..Sourwood I have yes.