Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Swamp Thang on August 12, 2016, 04:18:54 pm

Title: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 12, 2016, 04:18:54 pm
Okay so the title maybe misleading this is actually my 2nd bow all together the one I tried before was doomed before I could even begin to tiller. Accidently drop some tools on it and well I turned it into my first hand drill fire kit lol...  Anyways I came upon a problem on this bow I shot it for about a week trying to decide if I wanted to back it when I noticed two cracks on the back I'd say about an inch apart. Could I remedy this with some sanding and a sinew backing? And was the cause a hint or over drawing it?
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: SLIMBOB on August 12, 2016, 04:29:19 pm
I would say the cause is from the sizable hinge you have in the limb.  Bottom suffers from the same issue.  My first few tillers looked very similar to this so no rock throwing from inside this glass house.  My advise is start your next one.  Post pics as you go and you can have a shooter in no time.  Fixing this one with a backing is not something I would spend a great deal of time on as you can spend that same time on another and end up far ahead of where you would be on reworking this one.  Congrats on jumping in amongst them!
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: bjrogg on August 12, 2016, 05:15:10 pm
I agree with slimbob. If you look at picture your almost straight out of fades to mid limbs then straighten back out again. Most of your bend seems to be mid limbs. You just need to start another and spread that bend out more evenly on your whole limb.
PS You could retire that 1st one to save it but I'm afraid if you keep shooting it it won't last. I'm like slimbob my 1st had hinge to. It didn't survive broke it by a hinge after about 150 shoots.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 12, 2016, 05:30:34 pm
Thanks guys I figured it was a hint sigh I'm already on to the next one probably have it roughed out this weekend.....I blame the A.D.D.

Thinking about a 50" pyramid style bow.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: SLIMBOB on August 12, 2016, 05:45:47 pm
If I can offer some advice.  Go longer on your first few.  So much easier to get a decent shooter from a longer bow.  50 inches with your draw length, I'm guessing 27' or so, you will need to get it bending thru the handle.  Even then 25 inches or thereabouts is about all you can reasonably expect.  These shorties with the stiff handles can be problematic.  Basic rule of thumb...length of the bow needs to be double the draw length plus any non-bending areas.  For good measure, add a little to that even. 
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: bubby on August 12, 2016, 05:56:51 pm
×2 with slimbob, a 50" bow with a stiff handle should realistically only be drawing about 21" as a selfbow
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 12, 2016, 07:22:50 pm
Oops    ::)
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 12, 2016, 07:25:32 pm
The main reason I'd like to build a shortie is because we live in a very thick brush area would a it be reasonable to make it 21" draw maybe 50 pounds or more at that length
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: SLIMBOB on August 12, 2016, 07:49:50 pm
That would work. Again, follow the rule of thumb regarding bow length/draw length and your good.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: half eye on August 12, 2016, 07:54:12 pm
Swamp Thang,  I posted a  51" rigid handled Mollegabet that drew 25" as a self bow and then was given to Don Burchette who gave it one layer of sinew and it wound up at over 60# @ 27 inches.....

use the search button at the top and type in " Polk Salad Annie " and see what ya think sir.
rich
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: osage outlaw on August 12, 2016, 08:01:47 pm
Since you are new to bow making I would suggest starting out with longer bows.  Once you get good at tillering then start going shorter until you figure out what fits your draw length and your hunting style.   That's just my opinion.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: burchett.donald on August 12, 2016, 08:23:49 pm
 Swamp, here's a link http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,52218.msg707262.html#msg707262
                                                                                                                                         Don
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 12, 2016, 08:25:50 pm
Haha okay id def. Follow that advice, but already roughed out a bow shape after work..... my poor wife came home to a massive pile of shavings. I have my trusty bow for hunting luckly If I fail to produce a substantial short bow.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 12, 2016, 08:27:08 pm
Swamp, here's a link http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,52218.msg707262.html#msg707262

That's beautiful!
                                                                                                                                         Don
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: mullet on August 12, 2016, 09:08:32 pm
The rule of thumb that I started with was the, "length of bow matched my height". After you get some Shootables under your belt, then start playing. You will learn a lot about bow building when you get a good, stable shooter.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Danzn Bar on August 12, 2016, 09:15:02 pm
The rule of thumb that I started with was the, "length of bow matched my height". After you get some Shootables under your belt, then start playing. You will learn a lot about bow building when you get a good, stable shooter.
Couldn't of said it better myself.............thanks Eddie 
Minimum is two times your draw length plus 10" for handle and fades, that's a good start......for you first bows
DBar   
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: nakedfeet on August 12, 2016, 10:12:23 pm
I'll echo what the others have said: The bow looks too short for the draw length, and is way too stiff out of the handle and through the fades to mid-limb.

You could try to repair it, but you'll never really get it to shoot the way you want it to. Hold onto it for the memory and what it meant to you, and build another (dozen).
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 12, 2016, 11:17:01 pm
You need a tillering gizmo.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 13, 2016, 12:19:39 pm
You need a tillering gizmo.

Yeah I have a draw knife and a rasp
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 13, 2016, 12:31:00 pm
Are tight growth rings good or bad?
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: SLIMBOB on August 13, 2016, 12:40:40 pm
Love em tight.  When I first started I looked for osage with rings like Mulberry.  Easier to chase yadda yadda.  But over time I have seen the thinner stuff out perform the thick.  Someone will come along and swear it makes no difference, as this debate comes up every so often.  Almost everything we do with these wood bows is done in small measures and the results are measured small, but tight rings with very little early growth is what I would order from the Bodark Store. 
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 13, 2016, 01:09:51 pm
Love em tight.  When I first started I looked for osage with rings like Mulberry.  Easier to chase yadda yadda.  But over time I have seen the thinner stuff out perform the thick.  Someone will come along and swear it makes no difference, as this debate comes up every so often.  Almost everything we do with these wood bows is done in small measures and the results are measured small, but tight rings with very little early growth is what I would order from the Bodark Store.

Thank goodness I've had this stave for 6 months already cut to shorty length I never really looked at the rings the first one that cracked was made from the same tree...I'm hoping to get a nice clean tiller on this one... the other my first shot was on point I'm def. Gonna listen to yall though and start making them longer they just are no real use to me longer.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: SLIMBOB on August 13, 2016, 01:34:17 pm
I make lots of short ones, so I'm not saying you MUST go long, not at all.  Depends on your goals with each stave.  I am simply saying that it is easier to get a shooter from a longer piece of wood than a short one, and if the goal is a shooter, longer is easier.  No one started making self bows however because it was easy.  The rule of thumb I passed on to you earlier is just that, a rule of thumb.  It can be bent, twisted, broken or ignored all together, and as evidenced by the short Molly that Half Eye mentioned, with enough skill and luck you can do all kinds of things.  But the rule is there for a reason.  On the average your odds are better if you follow it.  This is a great place to learn this craft, and you will find no shortage of people willing to help with advice and critique.  Post what you have early, and solicit advise on what to do next.  You will get varying opinions from lots of folks, then just pick what seems right and get after it.  Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I want to add that no matter which way you go, long or short, good tiller is a must on either and especially critical on the shorter bows.  Your tiller eye needs some refinement.  I would suggest getting you a straight edge, 4 inches long or so and working your limbs into shape slowly, using the straight edge.  It alone will keep you on track to a serviceable if not enviable tiller on this one.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: JW_Halverson on August 13, 2016, 01:58:52 pm
And despite how I may sound to you like I am contradicting the good advice folks are giving you about going longer...there is a way to do that and still GO SHORTER, TOO!

Dump the stiff grip and fade away from fade outs!  Build a bend-thru-the-handle bow.  Double your draw length.  My 26" draw length requires 52" of wood between the nocks without overstraining the wood and not requiring any recurving tips, etc.  Double your draw length and add a couple inches for safety margin to get a shorter bow yet with longer working limbs.  Plus, the tillering is simplified because you are making the entire bow bend equally.  The bow should come into a perfect smooth round arc. 

That means when you are first beginning to get bend, you can stand back and hold up something round at arms length and compare it to the bend of the limbs.  Any flat spot stands out like a sore thumb and a hinge is even better at getting your attention.  It is literally the simplest bow.  And don't think you are sacrificing anything....less mass can equal higher performance! 
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 13, 2016, 02:20:22 pm
Shoot critique is the only way to learn I'm just grateful everyone has taken there time to help.... a foolish man never learn a smart man learns from his mistakes and a wise man learns from others. Thanks guys! I never thought about a bend through.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: SLIMBOB on August 13, 2016, 02:45:11 pm
At 50 inches, no question that's what I would do.
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: Swamp Thang on August 13, 2016, 04:19:24 pm
Well I'm off the mutilate another stave  ;D
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: JW_Halverson on August 13, 2016, 04:20:09 pm
Well I'm off the mutilate another stave  ;D

That's the spirit!
Title: Re: My first bow.
Post by: crooketarrow on August 13, 2016, 04:27:03 pm
GOOD JOB