Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: lauderw55 on June 15, 2016, 10:06:53 pm
-
Hey guys dumb question but last couple bows I have made I have had trouble removing tool marks. The current way I been tillering is using a rough file then a fine file once getting close too end of tillering and then sand paper from there. But having some trouble getting all tool mark out. Any advice would be appericated
-
More grades of sandpaper and don't skip any.
-
Get some cabinet scrapersand eliminate the fine file
-
I use a scraper to get them out. Then like PatM says.I hold the bow up to a window or a light and sight along it. If I see a ripple or mark I cover the area with pencil marks. Use an 80 grit sanding stick to get rid of all the pencil marks. Try not to think of the first coat of finish as a finish coat. It's mostly to show up the marks you missed. Go back and sand/scrape them out.
-
IMO, high quality sandpaper pays for itself many times over. I used to waste a lot of time and had a lot of frustration using cheap and medium grade paper finishing bows. Mostly glass bows ,but there's not much difference when it comes to finish work...
-
IMO, high quality sandpaper pays for itself many times over. I used to waste a lot of time and had a lot of frustration using cheap and medium grade paper finishing bows. Mostly glass bows ,but there's not much difference when it comes to finish work...
×2]
-
Biggest mistake we are taught is that you sandpaper along the grain.
Yes, maybe you do as a final finish, but you will never remove a longitudinal toolmark by sanding along it.
Going across the grain diablo fashion on curved surfaces is great for taking out tool marks.
A cork block with sandpaper will help remove ripples, without a block you can just make the ripples worse.
First coat of finish is just to help show the tool marks and generally a good deal of it removed.
Best of all is a big stack of patience and decent light.
Del
-
You just need to adjust when you are using your tools in the process.
If you are getting to the end and there are any tool marks then you used that tool too late in the process.
Say you used your bastard file until 24 inches of draw (heading to 28) then switched to the second cut file....and ended up at 28 trying to sand scratches out you should only use your bastard file until say 20 inches of draw.
The last few inches of drawlength I use only sandpaper.
My tools - axe/bandsaw/drawknife - coarse rasps/spokeshave/handled scraper - fine rasps/cabinet scraper/bastard file - second cut file/cabinet scraper - sandpaper.
Also buy only the best sandpaper. Abranet is just superb.
-
I take them out with the scrapper, some say you take off to much wood , but the wood has to come off somehow if you want the tool makes gone. I use very little sand paper except to take the rough sharp edges off when roughing it out or getting it floor tillered or getting the back slick at the start and rarely use a file after I get it on the tiller tree. :)
Pappy
-
What Mike Keswick said. Tool choice/procession is the ticket.
-
What a great thread and responses! I love to hear different ways to get the same results. Very cool! Tool marks are the least of my problems. I hope to one day get to that point.
-
I wrap sandpaper around a drywall sanding sponge. It's soft enough to follow the shape of the bow.
-
Thanks for the replies. I think I have used tools to late in the process. I have not tried sand against the grain and am goin to try that on my current bow
-
I stop using a file or rasp when I go to the short string. I use scrapers for basic tillering and finish up the tillering with an orbital sander with 220 grit paper on it. With quality paper you can remove a good bit of wood with the sander and get rid of all the tool marks while tillering. The sander will leave tiny swirls in the wood that can be easily removed with a few passes of hand sanding.
I bought my cheap orbital sander from Walmart for $13. I don't like the clamp on sanding paper so I use stick on squares on the foam pad on the sander. When the paper is exhausted I make a few pases over it with a heat gun and the glue turns loose without damaging the flimsy foam pad.
-
Once I string the stave I use a scraper-like tool or sometimes I'll alternate a rasp or surform with a scraper.
Any tool marks after that are removed with a pen knife.
Final sanding consisted of 100 grit, 220 grit and 400 and 600 grit.
Jawge
-
Ok I have been using a knife as a scrapper do you guys have any suggestion on a type of scrapper that be better. Possible one that could be found at hardware store
-
I have been using the rasp a lot more recently. I have found I use the rasp in a diagonal direction to the wood grain. To clean up the tool marks a finer file, at a 90 degree angle to the grain cleans them up almost completely. Then paper, Then more paper, and then steel wool.
-
All the best advice said earlier here.
Just my two cents on tools what I tlller with.A farriers rasp[less aggressive side]followed by a 2by4 block of wood with 36 grit paper on it to remove all if any undulations or ripples or whatever lengthwise.Then to 80 grit/100 grit/150 grit/to 220.Every stave is different with undulations on it so keeping each side of limb the same thickness needs to keep being checked constantly.You will find what tools work the most comfortable for you.
To start with before I tiller to bigger bending I have a very pristine back.Lots of times to 220 grit already.Corners rounded too.
-
I see lots of advice I agree with. I use primarily a scraper to remove tool marks but one problem with a scraper is that when you have even a shallow gouge horizontal to the grain the scraper can dig into the gouge each stroke. I use a slightly rounded scraper that allows me to go across the grain in these cases instead of with the grain, I try to maintain at least a 45 degree angle to the direction of the tool mark. If that doesn't work I use a rasp if I have enough wood left on the bow. I try to keep tool marks gone the best I can throughout the process.
-
Steve just said it, "try to remove the tool marks throughout the process".
Everything I do throughout my process is to progressively get finer and finer with material removal. I start out course and with every tool change I remove the tool marks from the rougher tool before. All the way to 600 grit good sandpaper.
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is using natural sun lite so find all of your imperfections.
Patrick
-
I have made really good scrapers out of circular saw blades and large band saw blades. There is a post towards the back of the how-to section on here that shows you how to put an edge on a scraper.
-
Link for the lazy: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,1237.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,1237.0.html)
-
when tillering go slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww use the fine rasp. Then use scraper then sand paper. And quit using the corner edges of the file. Making those deep tool marks.
I do all of my tillering with ruff to fine rasps sand paper to finish.
-
I love a gooseneck scraper for tool marks. Typically by the time the bow is braced I have the working parts of the bow free of tool marks, and at that point I'm mostly using a cabinet scraper.
-
Most of mine so far I've chosen sharp bladed tools that don't leave gouges and roughness: drawknives, spokeshaves etc. I don't mind a few of those tool marks; it makes for a more "honest" finish that leaves evidence of the process that created the piece.
I have got some surforms, shintos and dreadnoughts to play with now though, so that'll perhaps change my approach.
-
I often hear people's scrapers/knife blades make noise as they come in contact with the wood. If you hear a pop or click as your tool comes down, you just cut a ding in the wood where you started scraping. *click*scrape*click*scrape*
That's a cut mark going ACROSS the grain. So every scrape leaves another tool mark.
Instead, lay the scraper/knifeblade on the limb well above the tool mark and rotate it up to scraping position as you move it towards the tool mark you intend to take out. It's kinda like a wiping motion. And that is an apt description because it wipes out tool marks.
And with your rasps and such, try changing the angle of the rasp to the limb. All of my rasps have a point where the rank and file of the teeth line up and it leaves virtually no toolmarks.
Lastly, SIDEWALK CHALK, and the cheapest you can find. Or a charcoal briquette. :o No really. Rub this up and down the limbs and wipe with a rag. Pops those tool marks out so they are easier to find.
-
When it comes to finishing a bow I have a love hate view on it. I'm pretty meticulous about getting almost every mark out and so usually I drag on finishing for a few days normally by scraping all the rough marks out and then going and sanding each individual mark out.
-
I use a knife to take out tool. Marks
-
I am going to try the charcoal thing today, JW.
-
I use a knife to take out tool. Marks
As a scraper or as a blade?