Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: masonred on April 27, 2016, 09:28:45 am
-
When is the best time to cut wood? I've heard that the amount of sap makes a difference on the way wood cures not just the amount of time it takes to dry. I should have paid attention when I was young but that didn't happen. I have some elm that needs to go trees are to thick, growing to close together for my taste. So does it matter if the trees are cut now? This is new to me I've made 2 board bows or 1 1/2, one didn't get finished before it broke in half.
-
Now is the perfect time for whitewoods. The saps flowing so the bark should come right off. Cut it, split it, peel it and seal it. Josh
-
Is there any advantage to waiting until August or so to get a thicker growth ring for the back?
-
Timbo, I wait a little.
It's not a curing or moisture content thing, though, even as wet as the wood can be in spring. On strongly ring porous woods like elm and ash, I have had that growth ring under the bark, the one we want for the back, be so thin that it wouldn't hold over a thickish porous winter ring. I have cut several staves of elm, cut about when the snow melted off, that started to crack and actually have the eggshell-thin outer growth ring flake off. One I scraped down and saved at a lower weight, and a couple others that hinged where the flaking started.
So, have a look if you cut it. If that outer ring is under 1/16" maybe take off a layer, or just give it til the end of May, or whatever.
-
Best time to cut is when you have the opportunity, the inclination and a saw :)
Del
-
Depending on your area, the latewood shouldn't haven't even started forming yet. It should just be the porous early wood developing now. I sand that off right along with whatever I sealed the back with when the stave is seasoned. Now if your from further south, the latewood may have started already. In that case I would certainly wait awhile. Most whitewoods that I have harvested the bark slipped easily clear through August. It was pointed out to me that trying that with hickory wouldn't work and the bark sticks tight after July. So that very august I harvested some pecan. Sure enough, that bark was stuck tight. So I guess what I'm trying to say is it depends on your region and the species you're after. Cut one piece, see if the timings right. If it is cut some more. If not... wait. Josh
-
I'm near Austin Tx, so the trees have had leaves for awhile.
-
I've cut dozzen's and dozzens of trees. All kinds white wood and hard woods.
Made 75 ,80 bows, sold 100's of staves.
Crooketarrow once told me the time of year dos'nt matter. If you leave it season on it's own for a year or 2. I beleive he was right from what I've seen. He did build self bows for 50 plus years.
I leave staves season at least 3 years in a dry airy barn. But I have some 6,8,12 . to some Osage 15, 20 years.
I cut and split a lot, work the ones down I want to either but on a caul or I'll reflex some of the other. I make dead sure there well seasoned. Pm me it you need a stave. Sell or trade
-
Timbo, I wait a little.
It's not a curing or moisture content thing, though, even as wet as the wood can be in spring. On strongly ring porous woods like elm and ash, I have had that growth ring under the bark, the one we want for the back, be so thin that it wouldn't hold over a thickish porous winter ring. I have cut several staves of elm, cut about when the snow melted off, that started to crack and actually have the eggshell-thin outer growth ring flake off. One I scraped down and saved at a lower weight, and a couple others that hinged where the flaking started.
So, have a look if you cut it. If that outer ring is under 1/16" maybe take off a layer, or just give it til the end of May, or whatever.
This shows a misunderstanding of how a tree grows a ring. Whatever problem you had was not related to the time of year. When the snow is just melting the outer ring is the same as it was at the end of the previous growing season.
-
I am sure there is an optimum time to cut,, but the difference between that and the worst time to cut, is probably not an issue in the in the quality of bow that can be made from a stave,,,
-
I like to cut in the fall/winter, because I don't get as sweaty, less people out there, and I seem to get less checking. But really, I cut whenever the opportunity arises.
I cut 5 yew poles just yesterday.
-
Cut it during the growing season if it is a whitewood so the bark will come off easily as was said above. For osage, the locust sand mulberry it doesn not matter since the sapwood should come off anyway. Jawge
-
This is just an observation that comes from wiring my bonsai trees. We wire them to train the limbs to stay where we want them. The wire is wrapped in a spiral around the branch and then the branch is bent into position. They have to be watched carefully to prevent the wire from cutting into the bark. The time when the tree thickens the most is in the fall. You can watch the tree all summer and the wire won't tighten that much but if you forget to watch it in the fall you will find that the wire has cut in. I have no idea what the mechanism is but it's the same for deciduous as well as evergreen trees. The trees must store the energy/food somewhere and then thicken in the fall. I've been doing bonsai for 25 years and it's the same for all the trees I've dealt with.
I'm not sure what this means as far as collecting is concerned. Maybe to avoid fall collection as this appears to be when the tree is building a ring(or the bulk of a ring). I don't think it's a big deal. I'm with Del. Collect when the opportunity arises and your saw is sharp. And your saw should always be sharp :D :D
-
The growing season is more dependent on daylight hours and temperature than the actual season. I'd be skeptical that a tree could put down most of a late ring in a short period of time late in the year.
-
One way or tother the fall is when they thicken. It may not be ring growth that actually thickens it, it may be starch storage or whatever but that's when the wire really tightens.
-
Well the growth ring HAS to thicken it and it reaches maximum width in the fall. Perhaps the transport of nutrients back down to the roots for winter engorges the cambium area but that wouldn't be actual thickness of wood being laid down.
You could always tie a wire tightly around a tree in spring and see the rate that it actually starts to pinch the trunk.
-
I'm sorta doing that at the moment. I'm growing some hazel suckers and I wrapped a string around it with a tag saying it's 1.25" in dia. I'll keep measuring through the summer. I'm getting impatient to harvest them.
-
Consider string stretch and typical growth ring thickness as well. A wood like Ash or Elm can put on a 1/4 inch or more per summer while HHB or Maple might be lucky to put down 1/16.
-
masonred......Ideally I like to cut osage in the fall.Debark it and take sapwood off.Shellac back and ends.Letting it dry slowly in the cooler weather at first to not check at all.White woods when the sap is running good for easy removal of bark.If leaves are appearing in the spring the sap is running.
Some of my hickories here that I like have growth ring counts of 25 to the inch with early wood looking almost like dots.Very strong intergrained stuff.Thicker ringed white woods cut in the winter can have the ring chased with the draw knife but not those thinner ringed ones.Like to pull the bark off of those.
-
I was once told by a old farmer let me bow hunt and cut Osage on his 445 ac er family farm. I'm sure he'd cut 100's through the years for fence post. He was in his 70's then.
I ask him the same question. His answer was those dang old trees. Well that's easy, dang boy when ever you can. Everybody knows that.
He wasn't cutting the Osage trees for bows but the same concept.
Heres what Crooketarrow told me about early rings. Your going to scrap off that dead early wood.Of a well seaoned stave. Your go to get down to get rid of your dead early wood. To that first good ring anyway. Thats the way I was taught. We all do the same, at least I thought you all did it that way.
Worked for me the last 23 years.
Here's another tid,bit some one once told me 20 years ago. TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. I don't know if it's true. It came form someone grandaddy gobbler hunted with in SC. He was a barrel maker I was told. Has nothing to do with bows. But I've come to beleive it.
Early wood has neither compression or tention. It's the woods rings that has compression and tention. Away for the tree to grow. Seasoned it acts as a glue holding the wood rings.
-
This shows a misunderstanding of how a tree grows a ring. Whatever problem you had was not related to the time of year. When the snow is just melting the outer ring is the same as it was at the end of the previous growing season.
[/quote]
No, this wasn't the problem. Upon inspection it was obvious that I was either using early wood on the back or a paper thin latewood ring. I might be off by a few days or weeks on the timing, as it was 6 or 8 years ago this happened, but I'm sure this is what was happening. All the other growth rings were fat, solid, and well established. These showed a grainy layer covered by a very thin layer.
We do get drought years and the like around here. None of the trees I had cut from this same grove gave me any issues and they were all cut in the winter, summer, or fall.
-
I prefer to cut whitewood about this time of the year. When I peel the bark I want last years mature ring to be my back ring. If you cut later in the summer the back ring will be what was laid down this growing season and IMO it is immature.