Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: sapling bowyer on April 23, 2016, 04:17:33 pm

Title: european hornbeam
Post by: sapling bowyer on April 23, 2016, 04:17:33 pm
Hello guys! I have recently found that we have lots of good saplings of european hornbeam around. I have heard that this hornbeam   
is better in compression than it is in tension and bad news is that I can not cut wood large enough so that it has no crown. I can only cut saplings like 3 inch diameter with high crown. Can trapping the bow do any good? I'm also not aiming at anything above 45 pounds. Would heat treating the back do any help? I do not want to back this bow and I'm afraid of decrowning because I can run it.  Anybody help? Also looking forward for some tips.
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: ajooter on April 23, 2016, 04:33:22 pm
a crowned stave is already essentially trapped so no trapping required.  I don't think it is ever wise to heat treat the back of a bow.  a 3" sapling should easily yield the draw weight you are looking for without any fussing.
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: wizardgoat on April 23, 2016, 05:21:26 pm
if there's lots around just make some bows and see how the wood is as a self bow.
Make the bow a little bit long until you figure out the wood
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: Del the cat on April 24, 2016, 03:44:44 am
Best to keep the back untouched, but if it is too highly crowned you may need to decrown it.
I think you are confusing trapping and decrowning.
I have used European Hornbeam, its hard stuff.
Del
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: sapling bowyer on April 24, 2016, 04:34:49 am
By trapping, I mean making the belly narrower than the back so that compression does not over power tension. If I am right. Does hornbeam check?
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: Dakota Kid on April 24, 2016, 06:38:15 am
I'm pretty sure trapping refers to the back of the bow, which means the back would be narrower than the belly. It would give it more of a crowned shape if it was flat to begin with.
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: sapling bowyer on April 24, 2016, 07:08:39 am
Well than I plan on reverse trapping if that helps with equalizing the compression and tension forces. Anybody know how hornbeam behaves when drying fast?
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: Pat B on April 24, 2016, 08:52:41 am
Trapping can go either way. Wider back for weaker back, wider belly for weaker belly.
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: mullet on April 24, 2016, 09:48:21 pm
Sounds like you already know the answer to your question.
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: joachimM on April 25, 2016, 01:54:54 am
Hornbeam checks rather badly in my experience. Debark, reduce to rough dimensions, seal on all sides with wood glue (water soluble so you can wash it off afterwards) clamp the limbs to a board so it wont warp, store dry and wait a few weeks.

Trapping can be done on back or belly, generally done on the back hence the confusion.
Such rounded bows are sweet shooters but tend to be a bit slower as they are heavy (mass) for their draw weight: all the mass is concentrated in the neutral plane.

Try multiple ones. I would decrown one on the back and back it with wathever you can: sinew, sisal, bamboo, hickory, maple, ...
Joachim
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: bambule on April 25, 2016, 02:34:05 am
I've build some bows out of european hornbeam. Most of them fail on the back cause the wood is so strong in compression that the back can't handle it.
Only long, narrow and leightweighted bows (~ 30#).
Backing with Hickory, Bamboo or Silk is good option for surviving.
Only two of the bows with a natural back didn't broke.

Good Luck for you

Greetz
Cord
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: Springbuck on April 25, 2016, 11:54:27 am
If you can't get a wide stave, get a long one.  If you can't get a long one, get more % wood moving: make a bendy handle, whip tiller it a little,  etc...   The point is to decrease the strain felt on the highest part of the crown.  Standard rules apply.  I don't know the wood species, so reverse trapping might help, but so might a narrow design with a flat or slight rounded belly.  I had heard European hornbeam was pretty strong, so I'm surprised to hear it's tension-poor.
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: bambule on April 26, 2016, 02:04:11 am
@Springbuck:
I don't think that European Hornbeam is poor in tension - it's only very strong in compression which makes it feel like weak in tension. I also don't know if the failures are really a reason of weak tension or maybe of a failure in the back. Cause of the wiggely surface you can't see it. I had success with bows which look like each others...
European Hornbeam is one of the strongest woods in Europe - with an sg about .97. It's used for axe handles and other tools.
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: sapling bowyer on April 26, 2016, 09:29:36 am
Thanks everyone! I will start once I find a decent piece
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: Springbuck on April 26, 2016, 09:37:00 am
 Thanks, Bambule.  That was kind of the impression I had about the strength and density.
Title: Re: european hornbeam
Post by: Jodocus on April 26, 2016, 02:19:31 pm
I've never seen a bowable piece of hornbeam in my life  ;D Excellent firewood, though. Or for the sole of a plane tool.