Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Josh B on March 20, 2016, 07:22:35 pm

Title: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on March 20, 2016, 07:22:35 pm
Northern catalpa harvested in northern Missouri a couple years ago.  It has a bit of character here and there and it was only a 2" thick sapling so it ended up having to be pretty long and narrow to compensate for the ultra light weight wood.  It's 71" ntn and 40#@26".  Featherlight in the hand with exceptional cast.  I haven't finished it yet as I want to see how its going to hold up over time first.  So far there's no frets and very little set after a hundred arrows.  Hopefully it will hold up because catalpa wood grain is gorgeous when properly finished.  Thanks for looking!  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on March 20, 2016, 07:24:04 pm
Oh yeah...the overlays are Russian olive.  Here's the money shot.  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Swampman on March 20, 2016, 07:30:31 pm
Very nice use of wood not normally used for bows.  I like that one a lot. 
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Parnell on March 20, 2016, 07:43:47 pm
Looks like nice wood.  I've got one about tillered.  Hope to post soon.
Glad to see you post and looks like a great bow.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: osage outlaw on March 20, 2016, 07:47:20 pm
That reminds me of the hemlock bow at the Classic Josh.  Nice work getting a bow out of that wood.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: turtle on March 20, 2016, 08:14:39 pm
Sweet. I never would have considered catalpa to be viable bow wood.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: bubby on March 20, 2016, 08:29:59 pm
Heck i never even heard of that wood before can't wait to see her done
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: okie64 on March 20, 2016, 10:34:55 pm
Looking good so far! I never would've figured catalpa for bow wood but the worms are great catfish bait. I'm anxious to see how it holds up for ya.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: PlanB on March 20, 2016, 11:05:29 pm
Gundoc, if you just built that this month, maybe you can enter it in Sleek's odd wood bow contest! I always thought catalpa was considered "out" of the raange of possibilities as a bow wood. But then again, I'm building one out of eastern cottonwood.....
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: phyankord on March 20, 2016, 11:58:38 pm
is making bows from young trees a common thing? cus im not so sure if i will be able to find some very big bow trees where i live xD
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: wizardgoat on March 21, 2016, 12:58:12 am
Nice work Josh. I always love seeing bows made from uncommon woods
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Pappy on March 21, 2016, 06:20:27 am
Nice so far, looking forward to seeing it all finished up, the grain does look beautiful. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Aaron H on March 21, 2016, 07:40:48 am
Very nice Josh. Great to see some bows coming from our trucker friend.  Can't wait to see it all shined up.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 21, 2016, 09:15:48 am
I drive by them all the time, never considered a bow. Are they in the maple family, trucker?
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: rps3 on March 21, 2016, 09:25:41 am
Never heard of it either, but it sure looks good.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Outbackbob48 on March 21, 2016, 09:38:07 am
Doc, great lookin bow, keep us informed on how she holds up. We have more catalpa here than osage ;D
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on March 21, 2016, 10:28:01 am
is making bows from young trees a common thing? cus im not so sure if i will be able to find some very big bow trees where i live xD

Quite common.  I'd guess that half the bows I've made have been from small trees, saplings and limbs.
Thanks fellas!  I'm hoping it holds up.  I'm probably going to rawhide it to protect the back from dents and dings.  I noticed that it already has a few small dents in it just from bouncing in the truck a couple hundred miles yesterday.  This stuff makes ERC seem like ironwood.  Hopefully I can get home a couple more times to finish it up before the classic.  I always like to have an oddball bow for the classic.  Pearly, this stuff is nothing like maple.  Its softer than silver maple, ring porous with huge open pores and super light weight.  I haven't done the projected mass calculations for this build, but at exactly 17 ounces I'm sure that this is way underbuilt.  Even if this one folds up I will try this wood again with bigger dimensions. 
Thanks again fellas!  Josh
Oh yeah...Okie your dead on right about the worms being good bait.  I have two spots on the river where catalpa trees hang over a hole.  Drop a catalpa worm in there and you best be hangin on to your pole!
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: bradsmith2010 on March 21, 2016, 11:02:56 am
looks great, bet is it smooth to draw :)
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: joachimM on March 21, 2016, 06:10:42 pm
According to specs in the wood database, catalpa is about the worst possible bow wood  :o
It's supposedly OK in tension but really terrible in compression.
However, you used a sapling. Wood from saplings (or in general, juvenile wood) is always a lot better in compression than mature wood. This has to do with differences in how wood fibres are oriented in juvenile wood (the so-called micro-fibril angle is much higher).

Still, seeing your bow hold its ground so well, I'm second guessing that the compression data in the wood database can't be correct  :-\
Well done! Goes to show you never really know till you make a bow out of it.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on March 21, 2016, 07:01:03 pm
Yes Sir Mr. Smith it does draw smooth.  As long as it is, stack is not even a consideration.
Joaquim- I consult the wood database from time to time when I encounter a new wood, but one should always keep in mind that the information gleaned there is not intended for bowyers. You can get a general idea as to the properties of a wood species, but nothing specific.  Also, even within a set species of wood there are huge variables that come into play as far as bending properties go.  These could be due to amount of sunlight/shade, water, soil, location, so on and so forth.  You can cut two trees growing within a few yards of each other and have huge variance between the two.  Reading raw data is a fine starting point, but like all reading of others work it's no replacement for your own hands on experience.  I'm not saying that the volumes of info written on our beloved past time are incorrect and should be ignored.  Far from it.  What I am saying is that all that data should be used as a reference and built upon by making our own shavings.  I'm not sure how I got off on the tangent, but thank you for the compliment and I hope this thing holds up to.  The low mass is definitely beneficial to the performance.  I just hope it's not detrimental to the longevity.  Although past experience tells me that is an unavoidable trade off.  Time will tell I guess.  Thanks again!  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Hrothgar on March 21, 2016, 07:55:47 pm
Really attractive grain design, first catalpa bow I've ever seen. Nice job!
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on March 24, 2016, 11:59:59 pm
Thank you kindly!  I've never seen a catalpa selfbow before either....probably for good reason.  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on April 08, 2016, 08:48:51 am
Well I'm just sitting around in Rhode Island for the next few hours waiting for the lab to approve my load so I can kick it off and head west.  So I decided to snap a few pics of the bow with some tru-oil on it.  The grain is gorgeous, but I'm not a very good photographer so you won't be able to truly appreciate that from my pics.  Here it is ready for the classic. I hope it holds up.  Thanks for looking!  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Parnell on April 08, 2016, 09:11:20 am
Nice looking grain, Josh.  In RI?  Man, you do get around.  Where in RI?  I went to school there at URI, lived in Narragansett.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on April 08, 2016, 09:26:02 am
Nice looking grain, Josh.  In RI?  Man, you do get around.  Where in RI?  I went to school there at URI, lived in Narragansett.

I'm at a biomed research facility in West Greenwich.  Yep...I do get around some.  Lol! Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: osage outlaw on April 08, 2016, 09:56:16 am
The grain looks great in that handle Josh.  Great job on the worm bow.  I've got an idea for an oddball bow for next year.  I need to go cut it down soon.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: JW_Halverson on April 08, 2016, 08:38:40 pm
Gosh I wish I had seen this thread earlier!  Then I could have told you that it would won't work and I might have saved you all the time and effort of finishing a bow that would NEVER work!   >:D
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: H Rhodes on April 08, 2016, 08:50:54 pm
That grain is amazing.  I look forward to seeing it at the Classic.  First catalpa bow I have ever heard of.  Nice work.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Buckeye Guy on April 08, 2016, 09:05:58 pm
Looks good Josh
did you get any of the purple cast that often shows up in Catalpa ? 
See ya in Tennessee
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Aaron H on April 08, 2016, 10:01:40 pm
Gorgeous grain Josh (aka: 2014 truck driving championship rookie of the year!)
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on April 11, 2016, 05:43:23 pm
Gosh I wish I had seen this thread earlier!  Then I could have told you that it would won't work and I might have saved you all the time and effort of finishing a bow that would NEVER work!   >:D


Lol!  Well...there's an old saying, "you can always tell a trucker...you just can't tell em much!"
Guy- this one didn't have any purple blush.  It would've been nice if it had.
Thanks fellas!  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Badger on April 11, 2016, 05:50:06 pm
  I had no idea catalpa would work, I thought it was just good fro growing fishing worms, good job!! Now I want to try it.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Danzn Bar on April 11, 2016, 05:53:41 pm
excellent job there ............... Josh
DBar
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Arrowbuster on April 11, 2016, 08:31:20 pm
Very nice bow, I love how you done the grip.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Bryce on April 11, 2016, 10:36:38 pm
Man! The way you tiller a bow is always spot on! Love it!
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: BowEd on April 12, 2016, 12:05:52 pm
Nice job on the catalpa.I can remember first encountering catalpa working for the tree service.Was totally surprised at how light the wood chunks were.Even green.It's grain is sure pretty.Mass weight wise should'nt it weigh close to 21.00 ounces though for it's length?Your 17.00 ounces can account for the good cast it's got.At any rate good to hear that's holding up fine.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: loefflerchuck on April 12, 2016, 07:47:37 pm
Nice work Josh! I think this may be the first bow of this wood. I surly was never bold enough to try. The last wood I would use. We have by far the largest catalpa tree I have ever seen in the house I grew up in. I went back to see it after many years and it is bigger than I remember. The trunk is split about 3 feet from the ground. The bottom trunk is 8 feet across. Lots of fond childhood memories if that catalpa.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: PlanB on April 13, 2016, 09:21:54 am
I thought I had read somewhere that Kyudo Yumi sometimes used core wood of catalpa. Haven't found it again. But it looks like important Japanese ceremonial bows, and possibly earlier sapling bows also were made of catalpa. Not sure here if "catalpa" is the same or related species. Here's a catalpa bow at an online museum:

http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100707?d_lang=en&s_lang=en&word=&class=&title=&c_e=&region=&era=&cptype=&owner=&pos=985&num=7&mode=detail&century= (http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100707?d_lang=en&s_lang=en&word=&class=&title=&c_e=&region=&era=&cptype=&owner=&pos=985&num=7&mode=detail&century=)
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Knoll on April 13, 2016, 10:21:41 am
Now THAT is a locator grip. Great project, Mr Doc!
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on April 14, 2016, 09:30:20 am
Thank you kindly fellas!
Chuck-8 ft across!?!?  Wow!  That's a monster!  Biggest ive seen in my area was about 5' across and it was a gnarly, creepy old tree that had most of the big limbs torn off from a hundred years of icestorms and tornadoes. 
PlanB- thanks for the link! I knew that they used catalpa ovata for core wood on yumi's back in the day, but that is the first catalpa selfbow of any style I've seen.  I've been kicking around the idea of trying my hand at yumi's someday.  Maybe I'll try it with catalpa.
Thanks again fellas!  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: okie64 on April 14, 2016, 11:29:12 pm
That turned out beautifully doc! We have catalpas everywhere around here but I never figured on it for bow wood. Hope it holds up for us.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on April 17, 2016, 09:45:15 pm
I plan on putting it through its paces at the classic.  I'll be sure to let you know how she holds up.  Thanks again for the nice comments!  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: crooketarrow on April 17, 2016, 10:01:23 pm
  Good job but you need to open up your riser. You'll see the target a lot better at your shot). A little refineing your simi recuve handle. I build most of my bows with that same handle.

  Good job.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on April 18, 2016, 02:26:28 am
Uhhh...thanks Crooketarrow.  If i ever take up building glass bows or shooting Olympic style, I'll keep that in mind.  As it is, I shoot instinctive with both eyes open and I cant the bow quite a bit so the sight picture is not really an issue.  The only reason I even cut a shelf closer to center is so the bow will be more tolerant of a wider range of spined arrows.  With the cant I hold the bow at, the small cut out is pretty close to center shot anyway.  As for factory cut outs, this bow has considerably more than a bear Montana longbow and people seem to get along fine with them.  I would be interested in seeing pics of your risers though.  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Carson (CMB) on April 18, 2016, 05:02:51 pm
Way to brave a low mass wood and come out ginn'n  :)
It sure is pretty.
I have seen one reference to Catalpa as bow wood, and that was a fellow who was knowledgeable about Yumi bows, who said it was used as a single piece core wood in some Yumi bows.  Just a single slat sandwhiched between bamboo back and belly.

Sweet bow! 8)
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: soy on April 18, 2016, 11:25:33 pm
Driver that's a carving wood... >:D
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: RLimerick on April 20, 2016, 08:29:42 am
Nice white wood long bow!  I've been working with white woods for about a year now.  Nothing like a good belly toasting to make it albino osage!  Great looking bow, especially the grip. 
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on April 21, 2016, 08:41:59 pm
Driver that's a carving wood... >:D


I know...I was all out of balsa staves so I had to make do with this inferior stuff.  ;) >:D
Thanks Carson!
Thanks Rlimerick!  I don't know how this stuff would react to heat tempering, but I'd be willing to bet albino Osage would not be used to describe the result. ;)  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: JW_Halverson on April 23, 2016, 01:30:44 pm
The Master of Non-bow Woods!

Hey, next time you are passing thru, will you spend a little time helping me with the tiller on this Christmas Tree bowstave I am working on?  There was a guy posting a how-to series of videos, but inexplicably he does not finish the series!
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on April 23, 2016, 01:59:35 pm
Quote from: JW_Halverson link=topic=56427.msg77919 O:)3#msg779193 date=1461426092
The Master of Non-bow Woods!

Hey, next time you are passing thru, will you spend a little time helping me with the tiller on this Christmas Tree bowstave I am working on?  There was a guy posting a how-to series of videos, but inexplicably he does not finish the series!


ROFLMAO!!! ;D ;D ;D.  Good one!  Sure thing JW!  Just make sure you don't accidentally shut the stave in a door before I get there! >:D. Josh

Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Josh B on May 03, 2016, 01:29:20 am
For those who are interested, the catalpa bow did not fare well.  I had put around100 arrows through it before the classic and it was showing no damage.  My first morning at twin oaks I meandered down to the practice range and proceeded to put another 100 arrows or so through it.  At this point the lower started showing frets in about a six inch section, but it was still shooting good.  After 4 or 5 trips around the practice course the upper limb had frets matching the lower limb, it was still shooting pretty decent at this point.  After a couple full course runs the limbs were fretted pretty much tip to tip and the drop in performance and draw weight was noticeable, but not extreme.  One more run through the course Saturday and the limbs started taking some serious set, cast was getting sluggish and those chrysals were getting big!  Draw weight  was probably less than 35# at this point.  Sunday morning made one more run on half the course.  draw weight and cast are plummeting with each shot.  By the last few targets the arrow was dropping 3 feet or more at 20 yds and the draw weight was under 25# at a guess.  When we got back to the bow shop I took the string off and laid the bow to rest on the firewood pile.  Even though this one failed rather quickly, I haven't given up on the wood.  I'm on the scout for a bigger catalpa tree so I can get more width and try it again.  Thanks for following along!  Josh
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: H Rhodes on May 03, 2016, 05:42:08 am
I hate that she didn't last.  It sure was a fine looking bow.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: BowEd on May 03, 2016, 09:44:28 am
Yep Josh bet you'll have success from a stave from a big tree with a very flat back.I've noticed myself bows especially with whitewoods fairing better with a dead pan flat back.
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: Aaron H on May 03, 2016, 10:37:43 am
Good for you for putting forth the effort into this bow. Live and learn
Title: Re: northern catalpa selfbow
Post by: JW_Halverson on May 03, 2016, 12:45:41 pm
Poor thing gave her life to teach us all a lesson.  I am glad you were there with her all the way to the end.   :'(