Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ajooter on March 06, 2016, 07:31:49 pm
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(http://i.imgur.com/W0Rcfsn.jpg?1)
Wondering what is the best splice for a lever? I assume the splice should be just past the fadeout?
Second ?....I have about 18" of working limb...how long should my levers be? The limbs are 1.5 " wide btw...wood is hickory....stave not board form. Looking for about 50#.
Thanks for all the comments in advance.
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Most people just use a V splice like the first one for levers and you can see the same done for horn bows. The fish tail (is that the name? I forget) is probably going to be a real hassle that far up the limb. If you are concerned, you can always make the splice longer. It is easier to align a V splice with the rest of the bow that far up as well. One concern I have had about this is breakage in a non-backed bow. Most splices like this have a backing material over the top of them, but I have seen two examples off the top of my head of mollies made with inserted levers and no backing material. The one that stuck out was an ash molly with purpleheart levers. Looked hot. The only ones I've made were backed so I didn't fret it breaking.
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By backed you mean a hard backing? Or just rawhide possible ly?
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Put it right in the outer fade. A simple v about 3.5 inches long is fine.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp78/pat_05/IMG_1949_zps635f3e8f.jpg)
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What do you mean by outer fade Pat? The end of the v right at the fade transition or center the 3.5" over the fade? Thanks again. For the comments.
What about lever length? I was thinking about making an eiffel tower type molly like bushboy...just wondering on lever length with 18" of working limb....I was thinking 6 to 8" levers?
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I've not done a couple of Molle's but I'd suggest lever length anywhere between 1/2 - 1 times the working limb length (so 3/4 working limb length is pro'b a safe bet ;D ).
I'm not sure what is meant by fade... there's the fade from grip to working limb. There isn't really a fad from working limb to lever except over the actual length of the splice itself (and +1 to the simple V splice, bound with thread & glue)
I'm happy to be put right by those have more experience of these.
Del
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Whatever your typical transition from working limb to lever is in the outer limb is the "outer fade". Some people make this almost as dramatic as a handle fade. The splice should occupy this region.
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I'm with Pat.. this used to scare me, but it works just fine. I start thickening the limb maybe just before the bottom of the "V" of the splice. Then get a good fit and wrap it.
I personally like Mollies with a 2/3 working limb, 1/3 lever. Are you counting the distal fades as part of the working limb? With 18" limbs, 2-3" transition, and an 8"" handle/fades section, 10" levers past the splice would get you in the 66-68" range. Adjust according to your needs.
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I ordered some smooth on mt-13..but do I need an epoxy for a lever splice or can one use tite bond 3? I would be using the v-splice discussed above.
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Epoxy is always better if you are iffy on your splice cuts which you probably will be until you practice a bit.
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It wasnt horrible by any standards but will require steam to tighten the joint up. I'll post some pics in a couple minutes.
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If you're getting epoxy, just use it. It's just better.
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(http://i.imgur.com/ZbckR3k.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/VV4T5VA.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/WgSi0OT.jpg?1)
Here is the splice and the initial profile of the lever. The levers are red oak and two different colors of poplar. I will steam the limb splice and cinch that v together a little better before I slap the epoxy on her. I used my pull saw to cut the splice and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.
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The splices look a little short and wide. I always have them only about 5/8 wide or even less at the opening. Your outer limb should be tapering abruptly at that point.
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Ya say that now pat!! Haha...they are 3" long and just shy of an 1.5" wide. No going back now..just gonna have to see how it goes. I may be able to cinch the v splice down some and narrow the v on the lever?
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Next time if fitting joint like that, leave the tongue piece long and wide, and then plane the tongue to fit the fork -- you can plane and adjust as much as you need until you get it right. Then cut the outer piece down to length and width needed.
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Good call B..thank you sir..always learning something here
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Ya say that now pat!! Haha...they are 3" long and just shy of an 1.5" wide. No going back now..just gonna have to see how it goes. I may be able to cinch the v splice down some and narrow the v on the lever?
;D 1.5 is very wide though unless the limb itself was really wide in the middle of the limb. This is where it's nice to have a non spliced example at hand to mark a mock splice on just to have a better idea of what the joint area dimensions actually are.
You can probably narrow it after gluing but you'll lose a lot of your original gluing area. That will shorten the splice dangerously although wrapping will certainly help.
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I ordered the smooth on mt-13 but I see this is for metal to wood..which I will be able to use for the hardware for the takedown I'm attempting...but what is the best wood to wood epoxy you guys use?
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I like West and System Three. They are readily available and good products. Both have a variety of bonding epoxies of various viscosities.
Their gel or thickened epoxies are outstanding and easy to use.
The epoxy you're getting will work fine for wood to wood. It's already bonding wood on one side of the joint. It can handle both sides.
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Sounds good pat I'll give it a go
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(http://i.imgur.com/rZ73ovH.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/Qq0mHkh.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/CoU7YrL.jpg?1)
A little steam and the v cinched right tight. I'll glue it up tomorrow. I also added some underlays to the handle area of the limb. I may further shape them later.
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(http://i.imgur.com/w36u9oz.jpg?1)
It was a knock down drag out trying to clamp this lever. Don't know how well it is going to come out. It kept wanting to squeeze out on me so I had to use a big bar clamp end to end before I could put any side pressure on it. Will see how it turns out.
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After the glue up here is the one limb somewhat polished up. I ended up with a 2 3/4" splice which I was happy with. The smooth on smells just like Elmer's when I was cleaning it up. I have 14" of working limb and a 12" lever. The fade area has been built up with a red oak and zebra wood Lams (whole thing is about 1 1/4" thick). I plan on adding another pair of similar Lams on the back side of the attached area to give me a little more depth for the locking pin and limb bolt assembly. I'm not sure how long the limb bolts from Binghams are so I may need to order longer ones. Don't ask me why I put those Lams on..probably didn't need them...but I'm gonna roll with it.
Any problems ya'll foresee?
(http://i.imgur.com/iROITVb.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/wh7SlIF.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/KSgReSe.jpg?1)
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(http://i.imgur.com/L6n0QPQ.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/wgwfIVP.jpg?2)
Couple more pics....riser is solid hickory. I have about 2 3/4" of mounting surface on limb for attachment to riser. Little sketch of what I was thinking for the riser underlay. The riser is about 13" long.
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(http://i.imgur.com/MeGFAd1.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/VyvoNJk.jpg?1)
Closer look at the riser. I left it wide at this point (1 3/4"). I've marked it at its Close final dimensions. I have still considered sawing it in half and adding a lamp down the middle...but I like it's natural wiggle so I will probably just leave it.
I used the sister stave from one of the trade bows I'm working on. I got the riser and limbs from the entire stave...well limb at this point ;D
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Not enough meat at the riser ends to support those sort of forces.
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Even with an underlay glued on pat? It will be similar to the underlay on the limb.
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The pry bar effect of the whole limb is going to create a ton of stress on that angle you've cut and there's nothing supporting that stepped through area.
The spliced in tips are different stress level.