Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: wizardgoat on January 19, 2016, 05:11:36 pm

Title: Bow from veneers?
Post by: wizardgoat on January 19, 2016, 05:11:36 pm
I have a friend who works in a shop that makes skateboards.  Its all hard maple, and the vaneers are about 1/16" thick.  We're going to try and glue up some strips, make a couple bows and see how they work.
I'll probably go for a wide limb pyramid design, in hopes that the tiller will be close right out the gates. how crucial is it to pre taper lams for a bow like this?
The lams are very thin and already perfect for gluing.
Is it a game ender if more than one lam is revealed on the belly? 
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: mullet on January 19, 2016, 05:17:36 pm
I'll watch this one. I've got some Hard Maple and Ipe lams I was thinking of doing the same thing with when I got time.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Springbuck on January 19, 2016, 05:22:49 pm
  I wouldn't try to pretaper lams, just don't get crazy with R/D or recurves.  Layers can run off on the belly as you thickness taper just like growth-rings can, but if you are making a pyramid bow, that shouldn't be a problem.  You can even lay up your fades into the handle stairstep style with veneer slats before gluing on a handle block, but it WOULD be good to get a power-lam in there if you can so your handle can't pop off.  Less likely to if laid up with veneers, but power-lams are the thing for this.

 Most veneer is too thin, but 1/16" should work.  Get lots of good clamps, though, and the right glue; every layer is a chance for glue line failure to occur.

Lastly, just like any backing, DO NOT SETTLE for less than perfect grain.  1/16" maple backing had darn well better be perfect.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: JacksonCash on January 19, 2016, 05:45:34 pm
This will probably look pretty cool if it works. You should back it with grip tape!
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: wizardgoat on January 19, 2016, 05:47:12 pm
Thanks guys. Spring buck, wouldn't the "handle stair step" handle/ fade area already have power lams if all I'm using is these slats?
We probably won't glue on a handle, just a bunch more slats.
We're toying with the idea of it being a skateboard inspired bow and using the forms they use for skateboards to get a little recurve.
Maybe a grip tape backing? Hah
Jackson, was writing that as you posted!
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Hamish on January 19, 2016, 05:50:21 pm
What type of glue are you going to use? Titebond 3 is an excellent glue in general, but you can get lifts at the glue line eg near the fades, and perhaps where a non tapered lam is exposed on the belly.
This won't be an issue with urac, or a proper bowmaking epoxy.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Onebowonder on January 19, 2016, 05:57:20 pm
I have somewhat limited experience, ...but what I have has taught me that it is quite important to taper out your middle, aka core, lams in order to be sure to have a fairly consistent thickness of both the belly and back lam wood.  Also, use of a tapered 'power lam' glued into the core that protects the glued on handle region from bending is a very good plan.

I'm not sure what glues are used in skate board building, but Unibond 800 has worked very well for me in laminated bows.


OneBow
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: bubby on January 19, 2016, 06:08:08 pm
Ryan i think it should work, six lams 1-3/4"-2" wideshould get you around 50# . if it was me i would recurve the tips or atleast a hard flip, I've used unibond but now that I'm useing smooth on thats all i would use , just glue a bunch of strips on for the handle and feather the fades you should be fine, bub
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: wizardgoat on January 19, 2016, 07:08:27 pm
Awesome, thanks guys.
We're going to glue up a few to experiment
Not sure what glue they use, but I do have some smooth on.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: PatM on January 19, 2016, 07:18:29 pm
They are said to use Titebond 4.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: DC on January 19, 2016, 07:21:05 pm
Is there any chance you can glue them up on the factory forms(if they're long enough) using the same glue as they do. That stuff has got to be tough enough.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Stixnstones on January 19, 2016, 08:20:05 pm
If u skated back in the day , remember Lance Mountain always had primitive cave drawings on his decks. I think the spirit is there for u to make this happen, and if anyone could it would b u.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: PatM on January 19, 2016, 08:34:39 pm
Remember veneers are rotary cut which generally seems to involve steaming the whole log, not sure how that's going to impact the wood properties.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 19, 2016, 08:43:01 pm
Would a narrow, deep profile ELB type design reveal less glue line feathering on the belly side? Also, I assume your putting a decent grained backing on it?
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: wizardgoat on January 19, 2016, 09:27:59 pm
Thanks guys, yes I grew up skateboarding so it would be a cool project for me and some friends.
Ill have to see the wood in person, I know grain orientation and clean wood is important for skateboards, but just in case  I have some boo and hickory backing strips collecting dust.
I'd prefer to use all maple if possible.
I'll post what we come up with  :D
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: dirthas on January 19, 2016, 11:09:51 pm
A bow from deck lams should have plenty of pop to it. Maybe it'll even shoot faster than ollie your other bows. Just make sure to put a bigspin on the string for good brace height. If it doesn't work out, you can shuv it into the firewood pile. Whatever you do, just have fun, making bows shouldn't be a grind.

These skateboard trick puns doing it for anyone?
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: uacowboy on January 20, 2016, 12:38:52 am
A bow from deck lams should have plenty of pop to it. Maybe it'll even shoot faster than ollie your other bows. Just make sure to put a bigspin on the string for good brace height. If it doesn't work out, you can shuv it into the firewood pile. Whatever you do, just have fun, making bows shouldn't be a grind.

These skateboard trick puns doing it for anyone?

They got a laugh out of me. this should be an interesting bow if it works out.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: BowEd on January 20, 2016, 07:36:31 am
From what I've seen my friend Grant do with laminations of 6 or 7 it does work.Like what onebownder said to start with a tapered core is best.Using an epoxy will make the bow mass weigh more.Smooth on is 1. something or other density.Using Dean Torges type of form works well for inducing reflex and deflex.There is something to be learned from it for sure.Have fun.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Joseph on January 20, 2016, 08:46:40 am
I've got a longboard which I made from gluing veneers, and, I mean it's bouncy.
Sounds worth a shot.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Lumberman on January 20, 2016, 12:48:24 pm
Be sure to keep posting if you guys do it.. I've got a pile of walnut boards about 1/8 to 1/2 thick that aren't wide enough for longboards. I was thinking about trying a bow from them, but I wasn't sure how that would pan out
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: dragonman on January 20, 2016, 01:54:38 pm
 have made bows from 3 and 4 lams and with pre tapering they came out ready to go.....sometimes!!!
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Pappy on January 21, 2016, 05:02:33 am
Cool sounding project, you going to put wheels on it. >:D
 Pappy
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Stick Bender on January 21, 2016, 05:56:52 am
I have never done laminates on a bow but have done lots on furniture ,if you could get hold of a vacuum press / bag I think you can get the ones with the hand pump pretty cheap  you would get a nice thin & solid glue line ,I'm following this one please post pics when you get there Good luck.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: Springbuck on March 10, 2016, 04:02:28 pm
  Sorry, I missed replying to this.

   The stairstep thing on the handle is not the exact same thing as a power lam.  A power lam is a short lam that goes under the backing, or in this case, maybe between layers,not on the belly where the handle glues on.  It is thickest in the middle and tapers to nothing, or at least paper thin, on each end, and is just 3-4 inches longer than the flares at the handle.  On a multi-laminated bow, the powerlam IS the fadeout, or at least reinforces the fadeout.  Usually there is a powerlam, and the handle fades out, too, so they help each other.

One way to make a power lam without a lot of tools that a have used is to glue up layers of that 1/16" veneer stairstep-style.  Take, say a 14" long strip, an 11" strip, and an 8" strip, and glue them up in a stack, stairsteps on each end.  When dry, glue some rough sandpaper to a flat board, and using the "slant" of the stairsteps as a guide, sand the steps down to a smooth taper by hand.  I used to do this before I got any power tools, like a tablesaw and beltsander.  Good for your arms.
Title: Re: Bow from veneers?
Post by: bow101 on March 10, 2016, 06:25:51 pm
Cool sounding project, you going to put wheels on it. >:D
 Pappy

lol.... ;D