Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 06:03:10 am

Title: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz (finished. FD pic added)
Post by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 06:03:10 am
Hi guys.


A quick question: is it safe enough to use an 8mm dowel as an alignment pin (instead of a metal pin)?

If not, what can I use as a metal pin (8mm diameter)

Thanks
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 07:36:12 am
No. More like 5 mm x 12mm.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 07:42:14 am
Not sure how mail order works in Israel. If you can order from Bingham's, you can get the whole 3 piece assembly for $18 USD. That includes bezels, washers, threaded inserts, bolts and alignment pins.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 08:07:13 am
Thanks pearlie but I got everything else I need. Just the pin....  And shipping will cost quite a lot.

Any creative ideas?
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 08:11:02 am
If you have any type of manufacturing in your country you should be able to find an outlet for machine dowels. They are exactly what is being sold as limb pins.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: missilemaster on December 16, 2015, 08:30:48 am
There has got to be somewhere you can get  1/4" steel rod over there, thats all alignment pins are.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 08:45:56 am
Thanks. I'll try to figure something out.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: Selfbowman on December 16, 2015, 08:47:27 am
You have a lumber yard. Usualy they have misc. pins and such.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 08:47:42 am
You could use the shank of a bolt if you had to. Just saw the head and threads off.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 08:48:27 am
But just for mevto know... Why not use a dowel? All it's doing is holding the lime so it won't move sideways , and there is no pressure sidways...
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 09:00:02 am
There are shear forces at work. Most of the glass guys use TWO hardened steel pins per limb because that is were failure occurs.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 16, 2015, 09:10:08 am
Some wood species are extremely hard and strong, like African Blackwood, and should be available overseas.  I use 3/16" brass and have not had any trouble so I would think that one of these dense species would be good enough if made properly
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 10:00:56 am
You could use the shank of a bolt if you had to. Just saw the head and threads off.

I did just that and it seem to work.
Do I need to reinforce the alignment hole in the limb somehow or do I just leave a hole in the wood?
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 10:26:13 am
Just a hole in the limb is adequate.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PatM on December 16, 2015, 10:27:52 am
Generally you are better off with an insert for the pin to go into as well but solid wood is pretty adequate.
 Typical shelf units of particle board and the like often have pins that help align them. You could probably salvage some of them.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 10:33:50 am
Never seen limb inserts in any I've owned? Black Widow, Bighorn and Robertson. Maybe they are "hidden".
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PatM on December 16, 2015, 11:02:00 am
I meant more for alignment pins in general use. A pin and bushing is the standard. The dense materials typically used for this area on bows likely makes the bushing insert unnecessary.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 11:13:53 am
I know what you meant, just never seen one in bows I've owned. I think going through glass and wood takes care of that. I'm using osage self limbs on my project, so know inserts in my limbs either.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 11:41:01 am
Well I got the limbs attached. Alignment is far from perfect but thankfully the limbs are still full width without any tapr, so hopefully I can fix it with the right width taper.

Any tips would be welcome
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 11:47:36 am
Run a string from tip to tip until it runs directly over your hex bolts in-line, that's your bows true centerline.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 12:27:33 pm
Exactly what I did PD. I have enough width to taper the limbs to alignment.. Hope I don't mess this up... :laugh:
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 16, 2015, 12:40:52 pm
Sounds like you are well on your way my one and only Israeli friend :)

That's just one of the cool aspects regarding PA. You get the opportunity to talk to people from all over the world. Like you and Simon my Deutschland comrade. I know we have some Finnish folks on here to. Plus all those English blokes. It's a great opportunity indeed!
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: arachnid on December 16, 2015, 01:09:51 pm
Sounds like you are well on your way my one and only Israeli friend :)

That's just one of the cool aspects regarding PA. You get the opportunity to talk to people from all over the world. Like you and Simon my Deutschland comrade. I know we have some Finnish folks on here to. Plus all those English blokes. It's a great opportunity indeed!

Right you are sir.... the internet has mad to world much smaller! :laugh:
Thanks for the help and tips. Hope I`ll have a bow to show in the coming days...
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: bubby on December 16, 2015, 07:38:14 pm
When i built mine i put tee nuts inside the riser and used two bolts per limb
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: bubby on December 16, 2015, 07:41:44 pm
(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/100_2795.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/100_2795.jpg.html)
(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/100_2796.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/100_2796.jpg.html)
(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/100_2799.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/100_2799.jpg.html)
Put the tee nuts in between the hickory and walnut
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: arachnid on December 17, 2015, 12:40:05 am
I remember that bow Bubby... Stunning craftsmanship.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)
Post by: bow101 on December 17, 2015, 02:44:11 pm
I used 1 bolt and a 1/4" steel pin.  Bought some 1/4" round stock at the local hardware store.  Make yourself a drilling jig.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)- another advice needed plz
Post by: arachnid on December 25, 2015, 05:07:43 am
So... I got the limbs pretty much inline and got the bow tillered. Ended up 38#@26" which is ok... it`s going to be a fun stomping bow for my backpack.
BUT.... I took set during tillering and lost some reflex. I shot it today and it`s a fun little shooter, but I think it`s too slow. I doesn`t have a lot of early DW. So I realy want to re-add some reflex to the limbs. I thought of laminating a thin piece of ipe on the belly (and reflex it on a form) and re-tiller (although it`ll add more weight to the tips. I also have a thin piece of oak, maybe it'll be better?). Will it work?
If there`s another way to do it (beside sinew...) I`ll be happy to know.

Thanks
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)- another advice needed plz
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 25, 2015, 07:44:57 am
Self limbs or laminated limbs?
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)- another advice needed plz
Post by: arachnid on December 25, 2015, 08:37:16 am
Self limbs or laminated limbs?

Laminated (ipe\boo). I'm thinking of adding the thin lamination only on the tip section.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)- another advice needed plz
Post by: bubby on December 25, 2015, 01:08:48 pm
Why only the tips
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)- another advice needed plz
Post by: PatM on December 25, 2015, 02:00:51 pm
You'll just be chasing your tail adding anything to the bow now. Adding a bit to the outer limbs and reflexing them will make the inner part work even harder.
Title: Re: Wooden dowl as an alignment pin (3pc takedown)- another advice needed plz
Post by: arachnid on December 26, 2015, 11:11:46 am
You'll just be chasing your tail adding anything to the bow now. Adding a bit to the outer limbs and reflexing them will make the inner part work even harder.

OK.... Thats why I asked the pros, so I won't do any mistakes.

How about delaminating the outer section with heat (I used wood glue) and re-glue it with a bit more reflex?

If that won't work, is there a way to do it besides making new limbs?
Title: Re: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz
Post by: bubby on December 26, 2015, 02:30:25 pm
Can you post pics braced and unbraced so we know what's going on
Title: Re: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz (finished)
Post by: arachnid on December 26, 2015, 05:18:41 pm
So.... thats what I did.
I applyed some oil on the belly and heated it over my stove. then I clamped it on the form again.
After a few hours I took it out of the form and it kept that nice added reflex. Upper limb is still bending a
bit more then the lower but that my positive tiller since the arrow shelf is about 3/4" above center.
Bow feels like it gained a bit of early DW, although I need to shoot it to be sure it really helped.
This is not the first time I`m successfully heat bent ipe, so it can be done despite what everyone say.
It`s not perfect but I`m going to call this one done. I`ll take what I`ve learned from this build and apply it to my next takedown. This build tured out to be fun, I`m sure I`ll want to try again... maybe I`ll make my kids new takedown bows....

Anyway, thank for the help guy. You`r all great!
Here are some pics...(FD pic will hopefully come tomorow)

unbraced (before heat bending):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Jm0ZL4vq6dr4F-CyqpgBp_JsREkrNC_TnBadsON3Xd16Nmvwj9Gw_MC5JB-jshYLUPWitzPpT95Ber7KsF3G9X4APyQsLmahFNtcrn-t2Ry7bxT0YbWPBJ6GWGDvTuIxV1ZyE_larJGb2DOHVg3cn5ydlQ36ewQGxZt_RaVGmx73Iwnsyh3QTCvJJm7Dp7kJkYyUScWJClXT3LmvmeksrDLf-DjHIK5q9N_rk6OAAEYncpH7y0k1RiUjt0I1p84xx3dTaBU0oJHiPjRM0H25uJh25yWmU00H97m4w57xvdCzez_UlyfzBpbU9VWd4TgUqJrS4VcZ5a6Y5K4FjDfS8M-meDo-EPvLooWC9IFTMDNWJt5lDKefRUTcx1MSZHmWgO7KuOMFO5pNS2oX_590bl9h9i8Cw8ADiqTF-T4cRt3TTia9ungG7UPdnCC2vFOqYjSPPiN-kn0Bm2AZ5VQFhluNGbgFSUW2taAg6AcO4e4_dcjOvxR47yrd5bDogz9tRVyJ6P2VEMVGVhoChUpe-A24yO1cA9UtzzkvjEwDWKfHqh4bVeQHk7nLRVOeAVfZw3GI=w1144-h643-no)

Braced (before heat bending):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QyShdaWh7WO6q6xQQuh1VwgV7HRnT8IzaIhiziyOljbbP50M9UoxBKAWeDfeSY66-TNZulJVM-GqJXngNqdWDoW2JjT2KPeqNltytAYxYw7Xh9MuDz9vSpr4iXP7vsyspSwBUfHI_VsnpnxtLsLh_fLGkPO475foGCycwHGEBnnwzudMzNs7qd8OAuOHJiIzGRcMcD5V8pbjW7EpTO0nPo3pgrd-DaOi1dlqGEgX5YdsjalcpBXN-gFrcFgiktVy2QgDYkpWLfW1hK-ZvPEKRuTknM2YrgMQCucemO_O3CzaLjJaK98wpMW6Gxr7PGsGl_AG7Ay0u--3atmTkq_K_-ulwhGLj2fwx47u7Qicq2T_a8Y1anzCdksD8zCLMafx8Zh-NsSNZN265VNbv5599EPZXlRQfx09OyxDEmcOwIE3pUAJQpO886ZpqMc3W5HgfaSfzl4yIFHhS8Y-uGE8KSGMBvTP4Lppv6uRJkCxktIjgaHu4sX2By6k6Y3hrD-yNXGOPOdUXXhurTdbje9XBjoLffvSNDoPVk0DHioYhbXQmfhqxGtxoo8JkPQvWKTZZY-u=w362-h643-no)

Unbraced (after heat bending):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2SdvyeXBSjwZTNmzi70dr0n8wWxP06J61Czyco0PPtY5ZB-2fzoYwvsVazEN6ixWpTmc3sjLr2DMXTW7Tx3uBpGfz7BdcPIaX5ED9Yq5fqRLCR5rU5Hjjx4zoTjw-Bn2z-OBptw6YUuZ5aSFsEOH83I4iSdjEWxcOfwqBb2QeIIC_Ar15jqYJngArNcScabKWMmgN0mtH3PUXgdYT95GAOZAq65K5F0VNPLM7YOuzvsqEamQpKUj1CCuG-GbUVRQUxxiK8zMjdEBgyZDFKb6P_f-0eIy-VwNmcWj2T1nh-EkLAb8wxVjgVSS8-hi2f3LWe_6YUwuhBj2A4qtZZ1v64dEnSjmtKhT3yqBaxZ_yoOu8MS7dr8hry177FezH91FhEYOoZWLq5rhtNYzN7Gw7gcmqXIlczlw4depVe4ObYs-02YlIhiHrAR5UUr0KWQLn2Ndx8qerEGsPYjgdSR1P3YIfUwAXo-14Sf2k6yQuFlU3CWIEqgws4BAThCFxSlNy1TFssf-svymCzrmkZpbOCO0BAEeV6T-O_Y1_teP7WMF2KBSKi0d3_BO4njUmnR9MSl1=w1144-h643-no)

Braced (after heat bending):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Xgph29UJfTxRd0dwSYcfVUhPhXXvwHaN2Lpg_AgfxFGQ2ut-2qKQCaZDQ8Tmt50N4l_Z9AwIIkTs9dPQFzm6d8m4nTQfC8mEjjeA_MX3p1_fBkCv9VaQbE0hmypC6YZx-9RqokclsFyi7Y_K3vr_JnSZ68EY8WvQ9xldZ0seBZ4ohqR_RzpvGia6q9hFFWh05Dv0jacFW3pGzK_dxFtWebx58S_9hjthV0ggkTBSiqQ7Isa0VsLkT9kho9W4a_wn67qcJbI2GtGJz8qSEA38UhiNr-SoXBpqViSq0xUCDQ-zlEDUzSOH-12FgMCCAd1hfyD7kF2xnDkBMm36PyYe06aVJ_4Z9NUw4gjza7wSeJLf8trDplgwMvTVK_Nog26rk8-buyZ1JN-TG63y86twk8dThcRcbGZLjoaHRdP9jZ1tDWlP91aDcJyVaj8Gsk74W3w5IoR4yEpOXvxtMoOco-hc_LGB1JPKOIfhwXWw8ql4n4dDhezuLFA4gLSW8mEyx8FUsGPi9K5UT3z558TGXNH_CjeOTuqyRNh4FayKdTpGpl2dQgeylQuuPGd4wTDg_McA=w362-h643-no)
Title: Re: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz (finished-Full Draw pic added)
Post by: arachnid on December 27, 2015, 12:47:17 pm
Full draw:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1ctbF7Pe3hIO2Gg09Wj4YcVtZ2jjt_ZampWa6hN711zOzcvm9fd-8PaWjIp2roSWW-A1adijlNkFMKI04LqLl9vvTGJLoFmFVWPX5Ao-WFo84I-bF_2bMggzYin2v37C475Kg6Exred9mdLz4OFDpznUwxg_hbBvmzZ_Kcziam2e1HaRNEevST4Qc_PQatRf5EXo9XD7Tq1R0fDmiNGIer3051PeXrElpL_QbD1KBWWTGgz7TYOEDqFt_sv__hb49Qu-MeeqM2b1Fq4cwZMHzDM1JhasbsBaePgf312d-9_-0HF4BcqI34ayv07nztsEIwvsW5jDQnxCu2Q52a1QRcpoVPREeYck9CO7nzjVZUwWxmaYvGP3jb5U6tMFcutbENBXvCa4_Zmzozf57J3j-2kVhbbYmjTz362egbAG_cwTKfmzmxGITBdVR_-voh6zIiO3w5-kgrIq1pflk2H6IXX87bGmM12t2naY_-G8F967KcXbeUlOoJja35dJKSVpYeX781AHxUaF4fZ4Hbhnd9dL5J7LzzUhoJo4nv_qaf0I4czggSRdbmAgo-_sSdJQx65g=w1144-h643-no)
Title: Re: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz (finished. FD pic added)
Post by: le0n on December 27, 2015, 03:39:08 pm
I can't see your photographs. Check your share permissions.
Title: Re: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz (finished. FD pic added)
Post by: arachnid on December 27, 2015, 04:17:33 pm
Hope it shows now
Title: Re: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz (finished. FD pic added)
Post by: Pat B on December 27, 2015, 05:06:11 pm
Nice work, Arachnid and nice bend on your new takedown bow. Well done!  8)
Title: Re: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz (finished. FD pic added)
Post by: mullet on December 27, 2015, 08:10:21 pm
You did good, I like that. Where do you live in Israel?
Title: Re: 3pc takedown - another advice needed plz (finished. FD pic added)
Post by: arachnid on December 28, 2015, 12:22:40 am
You did good, I like that. Where do you live in Israel?

Thanks PatB.
Thanks Mullet. Do you know Israel? I live in a town called Rehovot.