Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Loope on December 12, 2015, 10:12:19 pm

Title: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Loope on December 12, 2015, 10:12:19 pm
Oops, got carried away with the rasp and thinned the limbs way too much and way too quickly.  I did too much on the long string without a scale, and once I braced it, realized right away what I had done.  I messed with it a little more to see what I could salvage, got it to length and shot it some.  It is whip tillered and hinging on the right limb.

What would you do... just burn it...  have fun breaking it... shoot it till it blows... or anything else cool I can do with it?

Flowering dogwood, pyramid style, 70" nock-to-nock, 8" handle/fades, limbs 2" wide tapering to 1/2", currently 40 pounds at 27"

Pictures are unstrung, braced, and full draw.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: osage outlaw on December 12, 2015, 10:24:55 pm
You could experiment with it.  Try steaming some recurves in it.  Temper it.  Then you could pike it and re-tiller it.  A messed up bow is a chance to try out new things and learn from it.  You might find a way to salvage a decent bow out of it. 
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Badger on December 12, 2015, 10:30:10 pm
  Cut it down to about 62", heat treat and fix the tiller.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Del the cat on December 13, 2015, 02:15:19 am
All of the above... treat it as an opportunity for experimentation, that way you get some use out of the work you've put in.
Or make it into a kids bow or a short (low weight) flight bow.
Del
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: steve b. on December 13, 2015, 02:45:34 am
No, don't burn it.  That bow deserves to live despite the abuse it has taken.  And yet it has no set. 
Get some of the power out of those lower limbs, maybe even shorten the handle in doing so.  I would do what Badger wrote, maybe even shorter.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: blackhawk on December 13, 2015, 07:21:33 am
Ditto on all the above...only thing i can add is to never pull a bow that far with a hinge like that,and dont pull it any further than when a flaw in your tiller is detected.....if ya left it the way it is that right limb is gonna show more set there over time and more use.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 13, 2015, 08:33:45 am
I do not see any hinges, It is whippy. Get the near handle wood bending. Use a scraper.
Then, think about piking it. You will gain about  5# for every inch taken from both ends.
Go slowly.
What I've found is that once the tiller is fixed the stave "perks up".
Jawge
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Eric Garza on December 13, 2015, 09:57:14 am
Heck, if you don't want to finish it you can trade the bow to me for some whitetail back sinew. I'll trim it down to 60 inches, heat-treat and re-tiller and I'm guessing she'll make a nice hunting bow. PM me if you're interested in that idea. What's the front-view profile look like?
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: bradsmith2010 on December 13, 2015, 12:24:48 pm
its not that bad really,,, the above suggestions are great,, there is a bow in there,,
may I add,, you could also cut it shorter and sinew back it and get quite a bit of weight,, you have lots of options,, it aint broke,,,, :)
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Loope on December 13, 2015, 01:00:33 pm
Thanks guys, I like the suggestions.  I had almost resolved that it was done for, but now I think it will become a project to see how much I can get out of it.  I am not emotionally attached to this piece of wood and could throw it away, but it takes me quite a few hours to get to this point with just drawknife, so I like the idea of seeing what I can do now.  I think I may even be a little excited to look at it as a challenge.

I think I may take all the suggestions... I need to get the inners working more, shorten the handle area a little if I can, pike it, temper, and recurve it some.

Thanks for all the input.  It still may not survive, but I will give it a try!

Michael
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Sidewinder on December 13, 2015, 01:04:11 pm
Yeah I agree. Pike it and fix the tiller, get it working a little closer to the fades. Its not as bad as I thought based on your description. I think you still have a chance at a good bow. like everyone else said too, its a chance to experiment and fine tune some other techniques.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Pat B on December 13, 2015, 01:21:43 pm
I would never burn or break up a bow just because it came in under weight. As you see there are plenty of other options. If it is too light, find a kid that's needing a bow. If it breaks, study the break and see why then make an atlatl out of the good half.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: crooketarrow on December 13, 2015, 02:48:12 pm
  I'd set it in the corner to be finish later as a kids bow.
 
  Learn from the exsperance move on to the next bow.

 
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: richardzane on December 13, 2015, 02:51:55 pm
how do you like working with that dogwood? I'm just finishing a dogwood bow myself - love the density of the grain and the way it carves and scrapes.
If It were mine and I wasn't attached to it, I'd "see what it can't do", by flipping those tips. With the extra length It'd give plenty to work with if
you decided to take some off each end.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: scp on December 13, 2015, 04:51:47 pm
It's long and wide enough to become a good bow almost at any draw weight. How strong do you want it to be?
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Knoll on December 13, 2015, 06:30:53 pm
It still may not survive, but I will give it a try!

YES!
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: riverrat on December 13, 2015, 07:18:29 pm
what would be the problem with shortening the limbs this gives you add weight to draw, then retiller to make it work?
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Loope on December 13, 2015, 10:35:05 pm
I started the re-work process.  My hope for the rework would be to get 50 pounds, or close to that.  Based on the comment of gaining 5 pounds per inch cut off the tips, 50 pounds might be achievable.

So far, I cut 3 inches off each tip - now 64 inches n-t-n. 

I had left the handle unfinished, which I think tricked me a little on the fades.  That is, trying to get a smooth transition with a too thick handle resulted in longer fades than I had thought.  So I thinned the handle to 1 1/2 inches and reworked the fades to improve it there somewhat.

Then started working on the inner limbs to get them working more.

Calling it quits for now, gotta switch over to finishing up some Christmas projects.  This dogwood may have to wait somewhat for the next steps.

By the way, I am loving dogwood.  It is hard, dense, and works well, and has an interesting pinkish hue to it. 
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: BowEd on December 14, 2015, 07:37:54 am
Yes that pink hew is cool.I see it once in a while in hickory too,but not as much as dogwood.Good luck.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Loope on December 24, 2016, 08:43:27 pm
I know this is an old post, but thought I would resurrect it to give an update.  I finished the bow this fall and ended up with an excellent bow, comparatively speaking.  I have made about a dozen bows now, and this is one of the best.  I chronographed the bow and it was hitting in the mid to upper 150's fps, and I loved shooting it.  I know that isn't blazing speed, but it seemed faster than my others... though I don't know for sure since I have only chrono'd two bows.

I ended up piking it, heat treating the belly, and re-tillering.  The final specs are: dogwood bow with walnut handle lam, 64" long, 58" 10 strand B-50 flemish twist string, 47 pound at 28 inch draw, aniline dye and tru-oil finish.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any pictures of the final bow with stain and finish, but here are a couple pictures just before doing the final finishing.  In the pic with two braced bows, it is the one on top.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 24, 2016, 10:16:15 pm
Yes sir! That's awesome. You did very well. Jawge
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: bubbles on December 24, 2016, 10:35:41 pm
Looks great!
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Jim Davis on December 24, 2016, 11:25:17 pm
Just my opinion, but I think if you shorten it to 60" it will either break or  take a LOT of set.

I'd cut it down to 66" nock to nock, clean up the tiller and have a good shooter. You'd come out about the 40# you have now or a little more.

Nothing wrong with a #40 bow.

Jim Davis
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: bradsmith2010 on December 25, 2016, 12:08:24 am
congrats on getting a nice bow,,  :)
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Bob Barnes on December 25, 2016, 08:20:40 am
great save... your bow looks like a shooter!
Merry Christmas.
Bob
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: bjrogg on December 25, 2016, 10:08:42 am
Really glad you didn't use that one for firewood. You got some great advice and used it wisely and the proof is in the end product. I'm sure you gained a lot of valuable knowledge. Looks like a hunter to me
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Drewster on December 25, 2016, 01:06:39 pm
Great save indeed.   You did get some great advice and did some fine work.  Congrats on a very nice bow.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: osage outlaw on December 25, 2016, 01:18:43 pm
Good job finding a good bow in there.  The tiller looks much better than your original picture. 
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: scp on December 25, 2016, 01:33:33 pm
If it breaks, study the break and see why then make an atlatl out of the good half.

You can even make a bow by joining the two broken bows.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Redhand on December 25, 2016, 02:25:11 pm
Nice save on that one. Tiller looks great too.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Jodocus on December 27, 2016, 03:43:47 am
  I'd set it in the corner to be finish later as a kids bow.
 
  Learn from the exsperance move on to the next bow.

Good advice, kids are an excellent audience to make bows for, those are the ones that get used a lot and are most appreciated probably of all the bows I gifted. The joy of kids over a good shooting bow is priceless.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: DuBois on December 27, 2016, 09:41:14 pm
Pike the limb on the left about 8" and make an asymmetrical.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: Selfbowman on December 27, 2016, 10:48:18 pm
What does pike the bow mean? Arvin
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: DuBois on December 27, 2016, 11:19:01 pm
cut off that tip to increase the weight.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: ty_in_ND on December 28, 2016, 11:26:33 am
Looks great! It goes to show that perseverance pays off.
Title: Re: Scraped waaay too much... burn it?
Post by: DuBois on December 28, 2016, 11:29:10 am
Oops, sorry  :-[
Yeah that's a fine bow man. Great save!