Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: dylanholderman on September 21, 2015, 09:19:47 pm
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i will get pics up tomorrow after i get off work(to dark right now sorry :-\)
but i have been working on this longbow 69 1/2 inches ntn, bendy handle 1 3/16 wide at the handle tapering to 1/2 inch tips.
tiller is good to my eye maybe i could get the outers bending more but its pretty even no flat spots/hinges.
but i'll tell you what this bow has the worst handshock of any bow i have ever made/handled before :'(
i'm looking for any thoughts, something i might have missed, gerneral advice, ect
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Try narrowing the tips a bit, it might help the shock.
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got a braced and full draw pic with it on my tillering tree. and now that i see it in a pic it looks like the outer half on both limbs need to come around some more and the mid limb on the right also needs to bend a bit more ???
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/CC79D352-66B8-4489-A39E-AE6AE1423DA2.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/CC79D352-66B8-4489-A39E-AE6AE1423DA2.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/FC28C122-0EA2-43D2-AAE9-A40786860E21.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/FC28C122-0EA2-43D2-AAE9-A40786860E21.jpg.html)
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Yea, take a little off the outer part of the limb on both sides and thin and narrow those tips down. That will help a lot.
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It might go against common thinking but the more perfectly circular I tiller a longbow the worst the handshock. The limb is not unwinding like a fly rod it is just snapping back all at one time. Not sure if everyone has the same experience with this as I have. Thinning the outer limbs will help but I doubt it will solve the problem.
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May be a bit long for bend in the handle bow. I like a stiff handle because I feel the mass in the handle also absorbs shock. That's why I leave as much mass in the middle as I can. Arvin
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Consider the weight of the arrows as well. Light arrows can't absorb all the energy of the shot and the rest gets slammed back into the bow. Heavier arrows will swallow up more of the energy and likely tame down the handshock considerably. Of course, heavy arrows are not an excuse to have a tiller that's off or too much weight in the tips but it is a huge factor in handshock.
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As selfbowman pointed out, it's plenty long for a bendy handle. So if you have not got too much set, it might be a good candidate for some backing (or stiffening on the belly) in the handle area. That is if you wish to keep the weight you already have or perhaps gain a little. Might even help the hand shock/and or timing issue
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I would get the right limb/ first 1/3 bending a little more and leave the outer alone, thin the tips a bit and maybe build up the handle if only with cork or leather, I think that would help.
I don't build many bendy handles so maybe some of these guys will be able to help more, that is just what I would do. ;) :)
Pappy
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Your limbs are out of time, move your hand up and down the handle part while you shoot to see where the shock goes away. I suspect the right limb is the problem as it looks stiff compared to the left.
Use a gizmo, set it on the left limb and run it all the way up the right limb and make corrections.
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I have to agree with Eric here. It's a tiller/timing issue. I can see your tiller is off which has been noted. Contrary to popular belief, it takes some pretty massive limb tips to cause hand shock if everything else is right. As far as circular bends, that's why I make mine with the arrow pass at the center and not the handle. The resulting asymmetrical limbs balances everything out quite nicely. Get your tiller polished up and it should smooth up considerably. Josh
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I started putting more bend mid limb in my elbs and it seemed to get tid of the shock. I built one several years ago that was so painful I would drop the bow and grab my bow hand in pain. I was shooting 225 grain arrows out of a 60# a couple of weeks ago that had no shock at all.
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as stated the bow is a little long to bend that much in the handle,, whip tiller it a bit so the handle is more stiff,, or cut it shorter,, and re tiller,, :)
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Thanks guy's ;D
I don't plan on cutting it shorter for two reasons, one it has a high crown and I wat to try getting it out to 32 inch draw, two I'm trying to do something slick with the tips and I would cut them off and have too try over again :o ;)
Heavier arrows helped but it still has a bit too much shock right now, part of that is that my bow hand can't grip skinny handles very tight ::) but I think most of it is in the bow.
Another thought is I have a big'ol 1/2 washer on the string to adjust its length, could that be adding to the hand shock ???
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a light grip is good for self bow
32 inch draw could go 66 inches,, and some would say 64 but,,
if you weighed the bow and looked at the mass chart in volume 4 your would see it is probably to heavy for the draw and weight you are shooting,, that extra mass is probably part of the problem,,, but bending that much in the middle is part of it too,, not your grip,,, a combo of tiller and design,,
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Symmetry in the outer limbs is important especially with D bows. Without symmetry you can have a mass difference which can cause the limbs to come back to brace at different times. This can cause a limb timing issue which will give you some severe handshock
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Timing is everything.
You can try everything mentioned, and they may help reduce it a little, but if your limbs aren't harmonized relative to your holds on bow and string, you'll have unnecessary handshock.
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Checking to see if it is the washer seems easy enough. Just swap it for a string sans washer. I would be nervous firing a bow with the washer wrapped into the string, maybe it is being paranoid but I would be worried about the metal edges cutting the string or at least putting a stress point in the line. I could imagine the washer may be doing any one of a few things that could be giving you the shocky sensation, but again I have never used the washer method so I am theorizing.
SOM
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looking better? i switched out the string for my old B50 tillering string and the handshock dropped tremendously :) still there but not nearly so bad now
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/1D4CB764-A07D-4DB9-9953-07586B81DD1A.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/1D4CB764-A07D-4DB9-9953-07586B81DD1A.jpg.html)
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I like that tiller shape much better!
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I like that tiller shape much better!
+1, as Steve said!
Are you fixed on the circular tiller? A more elliptical would drop the shock another step down.
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thanks guys ;D
simson i'm not dead set on it, and dropping the weight a few more pounds would make it more usable for the people i know who are interested in a bow.
question though, is there a deference between whip tillered and elliptical ??? or are they two words for the same thing.
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wow, big (in a good way) difference!
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A lot of times some of us will use the term whip tillered when we really don't mean whip tillered. We are making a point to get the outer limbs bending more. About the only time I would recommend a truely whip tillered bow is in the case of a long bow that is very light in draw weight, under 35# and maybe 70" long. Slightly whip tillered when using denser woods on lighter weight bows also.
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I am sometime confused by what the difference between elliptical and whip, too.
1. is the tiller of the bow in the opening post "whip"?
2. is the tiller shown six posts above better described as circular or elliptical?
3. what word best describes the tiller of this bow? (besides "sweet")
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,53856.0.html
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IMO
whip tillered: only outer limbs are bending, perhaps mids subtle, inner stiff.
ellipticall: all portions are bending, the outers increasing more
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IMO
whip tillered: only outer limbs are bending, perhaps mids subtle, inner stiff.
ellipticall: all portions are bending, the outers increasing more
thanks simson that is very clear :)
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I think Simpson covered it pretty well.
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I wouldn't shorten the bow to 66" for a 32" draw, even a Yew bow would be stressed at that length.
I don't see any mention of draw weight here. I do see that the outer limbs are still a bit stiff though. They should bend slightly out to about 4" from the tips. A lot of the bending is being done mid limb in the last picture
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Finally got this finished :D around 40@30 inch draw 70in ntn
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/7202BD7F-482B-43AB-8291-97CBBE110FDC.jpg)[/URL
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/D838C8B3-78BE-44FE-A6EF-5F5114E8640D.jpg.html](http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/D838C8B3-78BE-44FE-A6EF-5F5114E8640D.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/7202BD7F-482B-43AB-8291-97CBBE110FDC.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/E2FB33B4-F228-4FE1-BB96-195E5E56C81A.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/E2FB33B4-F228-4FE1-BB96-195E5E56C81A.jpg.html)
Full draw is around 31" can't quite get the 32" it is tillered too :-\
Here are the nocks I was talking about. Shout out to simson it was his HLD build along where I got the idea from ;D I think I need to practice it a bit more though I had some gaps that needed filling :-X
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/C88DF202-BA33-4F2C-9C96-5C1EDB60252F.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/C88DF202-BA33-4F2C-9C96-5C1EDB60252F.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/0E84567F-3BB0-42B0-9893-934809BEDED8.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/0E84567F-3BB0-42B0-9893-934809BEDED8.jpg.html)
Handle is hemp wrapped like my other honeysuckle bow but built up with cork first this time ;)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/324F646F-D0D4-47C3-8572-5083F71D2B19.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/324F646F-D0D4-47C3-8572-5083F71D2B19.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/DB651BF1-D844-4CF7-B828-3BA56CECA627.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/DB651BF1-D844-4CF7-B828-3BA56CECA627.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/354229F1-9FCE-4882-B532-A8D681481785.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/354229F1-9FCE-4882-B532-A8D681481785.jpg.html)
Also a lot cleaner stick than the first one I posted ;D
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w411/dylanholderman/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/EF882C57-C2DB-40C2-9F49-A90ACAF22DCE.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/dylanholderman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/EF882C57-C2DB-40C2-9F49-A90ACAF22DCE.jpg.html)
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Looks to be a fine bow, well done!
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i shoot bendy handles most times, dont grip tight, its more of a push away from you with meaty part of your thumb/palm with fingers just barely keeping the bow in position.and drawing with your other hand.on release you grasp the bow so it dont flying away from ya.it happens naturaly. thats how ive done it for years. never felt hand shock like that.unless i grasp the middle of the bow tight.Tony
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IMHO...the tiller was and is good now too. Hand shock is pretty subjective.
What are you comparing it too?
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Thanks guys ;D
George I was comparing it to my other bendy handle bows ;D I'm only just now making my second stiff handle bow :o
The hand shock I think I have decided came from the washer on my tillering string once I made a proper string for it the handshock became what I expect from a bendy ;)