Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ippus on September 01, 2015, 11:37:09 pm
-
Ulmus pumila – Siberian Elm…
Here in SE Idaho, it’s literally considered a noxious weed. The city tree guide prohibits planting them as “street trees” (in the margin between sidewalk and curb) or in parking lots. It says they have messy seeds and brittle wood. Also, in my experience they’re prolific as heck and nearly impossible to kill if they survive to more than a couple feet high. I saw one other post where some folks referred to it (or something similar) as trash elm.
Being so common, though, it’s the wood I’m far and away most likely to have access to for bow-staves.
This will be my first project, and I’m going to try an ELB.
TBB IV had a really great chapter on wood selection, and I think I might see if I can find a nice horizontal limb to work from, and use the sapwood as the backing.
I’m brand-new to bow-making I have a couple of questions for those with experience.
- I understand that elm is typically an excellent and versatile bow wood – how concerned should I be about the “brittle wood” terminology?
- How do you all feel about the sapwood on an elm? I was leaning towards leaving it on as the back. How good is elm heartwood in compression, generally?
- Suggestions for drying the staves? The RH around here Is typically really low, but it fluctuates a little less in my basement. I know to seal the ends, but should I split it and leave the bark on, or actually debark it and rough out the stave first?
-
I am in Utah and trying to make a go of siberian elm for the same reason. So far not much luck. Some of the time, from my own inexperience, sometimes it has been bad wood. one piece had fungus in it, the others I damaged from stupidity. one stave is backed with rawhide, but I keep hearing uncomfortable pops. I have a couple of staves that are still drying that look a little better, though. Still somewhat optimistic, but not as much as I was 6 months ago.
-
I've made ELBs from European Elm 100# and 110# wideish belly narrow back, heat treated. I used the underbark surface for the back of the bow and made no distinction between sap and heart wood.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/elm-warbow-virtually-there.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/elm-warbow-virtually-there.html)
You can follow the whole build on the blog, I'll post it one here when I have decent pics of it being shot.
Dunno if Siberian Elm is any different.
Del
-
I think that an elm elb might not be the best use of the wood but it will work well im sure. I have heard that siberian elm is the worst of the elms but have never used it, any elm should be fine though. Elm sapwood is just as good as heartwood. All elm I have used has worked well, even some of the soft, spongy elm has made bows so go for it!
-
I have made maybe two dozen bows from this wood. I'm not sure exactly if the species are exactly the same, but you are talking about an elm with small leaves that are not too stiff, and lots of heartwood, right? It smells funny when you cut it, often has that goopy brown discharge from injuries or cut branches, and very slippery inner bark (take a piece of white inner bark and chew it a second, and it will swell, taste sweet, and get all slippery like okra).
Is fine, but admittedly not as good as most of the other elms. The wood is kinda soft, but it is not actually brittle. It's shreddy as heck, stringy, kind of soft in compression, hard to work without splits and tear-out, but can totally make a bow.
I look for it in vacant lots, larger forests, riverbottoms, etc.. where it often grows in little thickets, or against buildings. The street department in my city comes along every few years and cuts it down to the stump where it grow in fences, etc.. and usable staves grow out from those in just a couple years. I love a 4" dia sapling grown in a crowd of other saplings, with only tiny pin knots and no weird kinks in it.
It's good for crowned back flatbows and semi recurves, and mollies, but it will take more set or need more width than other elms. I've never had one break unless bugs got in it, and BTW, bugs and fungus LOVE this stuff. So rough out the bow and quick dry it, restrained because it will warp every direction otherwise. Even then, make the bow as soon as it is dry, because bugs still want it if they can get it. Peel the bark early or it's a hassle.
-
I helped cut a 25" diameter elm today but have no clue as to the exact name or species. The owner called it piss elm because of the smell from all of the moisture oozing out of it. About 2-3" of white sapwood and brown/ saddle tan heart wood. We left the main trunk 6' and tried to split it but got a downpour before finished.
-
If its Siberian elm it won't split without a fight. Bring about 10 friends! I've had them stall out hydraulic splitters before. And it doesn't burn, it just smolders.
-
If its Siberian elm it won't split without a fight. Bring about 10 friends! I've had them stall out hydraulic splitters before.
lol, well THAT's encouraging!
-
I split some 8 inch logs with out too much effort. We put a chainsaw groove in one end to get it started and walked wooden wedges up the log. Of course it was full of fungus as it turned out, but it split okay -- not like hickory or other super straight grained woods, but it can be done. And it does smell funny.
-
As much as I love elm I don't usually try to salvage it from the street dept anymore because I am unable to split and process the wood. If I can find wood under about 8" diameter I will give it a go but noting larger.
-
Yeah, I don't know that I'd want to try hauling a log much bigger than that anyway.
-
I have one that is about 10 inches, ten feet long. I bet it was close to 400 pounds. It took JeffP51, Tyke and I to load it into my truck.
-
I have one that is about 10 inches, ten feet long. I bet it was close to 400 pounds. It took JeffP51, Tyke and I to load it into my truck.
😳. Did you have to bring out the National Guardsmen to get that booger split out into staves???
OneBow
-
I have one that is about 10 inches, ten feet long. I bet it was close to 400 pounds. It took JeffP51, Tyke and I to load it into my truck.
😳. Did you have to bring out the National Guardsmen to get that booger split out into staves???
OneBow
It is still a log in my garage. Everytime I look at it I dread splitting it. Although I haven't worked any yet, I have split a lot into firewood. It isn't fun. It eats wedges, wet or dry. the interlocking grain makes it a beast. I did take it out of my truck myself, and that is why it is in the garage, and not the shop. it took all I had to push it 10 feet to where it currently sits.
-
Once we got this one split in half it wasn't so bad to get to quarters. Now I'm going to try to get these split and try for 4" staves. I should get a dz out of it and then remove the bark and finish sealing. These are all 6 '
I may band saw off some belly in order to help get them dry over the next couple years. I'm not going to attempt any belly splits on this stuff. They'll go in my shed as soon as the backs are sealed.
-
Man, that's a monstrous-looking log. Better you than me.
I heard from the tree service guy over the weekend: They're dropping a black locust today and I'm going to swing by after work and see if there's anything there I can use. Looks like I might be giving that a try before I get my hands on Siberian Elm. Any suggestions?
-
I finished splitting the remainder by myself> No more. I saved 2 staves out of the main trunk to see if I can salvage a bow for the landowner. Designated for firewood IMO. I much prefer and enjoy working with the mulberry, osage, and black walnut that I have.
-
I was just reading that the Siberean elm is the weakest wood of all the elms, the chinese elm being the strongest. Let us know how your bows come out. We have Chinese elm where I live and I have always found it exceptional wood but nearly impossible to split.
-
That is an issue here in Utah, people call it Chinese elm, even though it is Siberian elm. It is very tough to split.
-
The chinese elm has the smooth bark and is excellent bow wood, the Siberian has the deep furrows as shown in your picture.
-
We have all sorts of Elm here ,not sure what most are so I just stay with the Winged Elm, I know it [easy to spot] and it don't split most times to bad, makes a very good bow if you keep it dry. ;)
Pappy