Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bubby on August 16, 2015, 06:08:45 pm
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I've mostly used one of the tb glues, i have used urac but I'm thinking about getting some smooth on and was wondering about shelf life and if i need a hot box, i know i don't in the summer but was also thinking that i could use a shop light and foil to warm ot up in the month that it might get cold here
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I bought my quarts at least 5 years ago and it is still good, just be careful to avoid cross contamination when removing product.
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One thing about epoxy is that if the resin gets cold(in the 40's) it will sometimes crystallize like honey. It doesn't harm it at all. Just like honey, put it in a pot of warm water and it will liquefy and stay that way until the temperature goes down again.
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We'll i don't get a lot of sub 40 deg weather but when it does I'll bring it in the house, so any thoughts about the work light heating idea
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When I am making CF parts for my model sailboats I have a double corrugated cardboard box with a 150 watt light in it. It gets to 150 degrees. I got the thermostat from an old hot water tank and put it in series with the bulb. Now it's adjustable. The thermostat doesn't read right but I use a meat thermometer stuck through a hole in the box.
Mind you I've always used West Systems but for the basics epoxy is epoxy
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Pearl has used work lights to cure these type glues.
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I thought i saw a pic of cody doing the same thing
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It's much more efficient to make a hotbox. It will only take a couple of hours to make. Smooth on get s stronger at higher cure temps.
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Mike its a matter of space with me and atleast four months of the year its well over 100 degs here i can stick it in my truck and get over 120 but yeah if i was just building lam bows I'd build a box
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Ive used a set of two work lights for 5 years with URAC/Uni Bond, zero issues that I didn't cause myself in other ways. Im sure you've seen plenty of pics from me with them shining on a glue project.
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Sure have Chris just wasn't sure with smooth on gonna order some seems like it has a better shelf life
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I thought I read that heat was not required for a quality joint with smooth on, is it just an overall stronger glue line if heat is used to cure?
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I leave my Uni bond in the fridge. It will last at least a year. Actually, Ive never had any go bad and I can months and months without touching it. Sometimes it will get just a light brown color around the edge. Ill put the lid on, let it warm to room temp and shake the crap outta it. Its never let me down, but I have.
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I had a conversation with a fishing pole manufacturer, the composite enegineer. He said you can have strength that is good enough or maximum strength with most epoxies. I don't rememeber the exact process they used but it involved slowly over a period a few hours bring it up to a certain temp, then slowly lowering it back down after it set awhile at the higher temp. The curing process took about 24 hours all together.
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This is taken from the companies website...
WOOD LAMINATING / BOWMAKING
EA-40® has been used for many years for laminating fine woods. It is
preferred by bow makers around the world and offers longevity, flexibility
and memory required for making award winning performance bows.
Suggested laminating procedure;
1. Plane or lightly sand all surfaces to be laminated with 120 grit sand paper
2. Blow off dust with compressed air and wipe all surfaces clean using
acetone (Warning – acetone is flammable. Follow acetone manufacturer
procedures for handling). Let acetone evaporate for 10 minutes.
3. Mix and apply EA-40® as directed between layers of laminate to sanded
surfaces using a brush.
4. Carefully clamp laminated pieces together applying even pressure.
5. Place in oven and use the following step-cure schedule:
Temperature
Duration
120°F / 48°C
2 hours
150°F / 65°C
2 hours
185°F / 85°C
2 hours
Important; Let cool for at least 6 hours to room temperature before
releasing clamps or handling
With that being said, many guys do not do the 6 hour "step-cure" schedule of increasing heat. The epoxy will cure just fine in a 24 hour period as long as it is above 72ºF. When gluing on tip overlays I just clamp and put a 60 watt bulb near the tip and let it cure over night - never have had a problem with the epoxy failing.
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I have been using G2 epoxy from System Three. It does not require a hot box. I have not used one at all and I have not had any problems with the 15 or so bows i have made with it. Yes it does take longer to cure without a hotbox - about 2 days - but so far, i like it.
SB
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I used G2 seems good to me, try it. I have also heard that heat and humidity affects wood bows so whatever glue you use like TB or Epoxies nothing will eliminate the effects that the environment has on wood. >:D Wood is wood when its cut, dead and fully dried its still alive. :laugh:
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I've used smooth-on almost exclusively for a few years and have never used a hot box. It will cure without heat but will take longer. When I spoke to the smooth-on tech people they said it will attain full strength in something like a week at room temp vs. 4hrs at hot box temps. I generally give it a day on the form, then a day or two off the for, to make sure it's fully cured.
The main thing is heat resistance. It will have improved heat resistance when cured at elevated temperature, but as mentioned before your wood is still wood so it may be irrelevant.
I have also cured it just putting the form out on the driveway in the sun. I haven't measured the temp but it cures pretty quickly maybe 4-8hrs depending on temp.
Considering that bows glued with Tb or other water based glues might take a week or more to get back down to the starting moisture content, 1 day is still very quick.
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I've tried just about every glue known to man, and I keep coming back to Resorcinol. I use Aerodux 185 ordered from Amazon for $62 a quart. It was highly recommended to me from a friend who builds wooden boats for a living. You'll do around 2 dozen bows for the quart, so it's really not that bad of a price, and you don't have to bake it, it's gap filling, won't shrink, it's impervious to water, not sensative to heat or cold. And when I've had bows blow up that were glued with this stuff, it literally rips the wood apart (even ipe) - the joint will NOT fail. And if you ask me, it's much easier to deal with than epoxy.
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I've used Unibond and Smooth On and haven't had a bad glue up with either one. I use a small hot box that's just wide enough for the form and one 75 watt bulb that keeps the temp around 90 degrees. I use the same box for drying wood. Don't know if it's my imagination, but Smooth On seems slipperier to me. I just use more tape to hold the lams together. But I like to glue the handle on the same time as the lams if the design permits. Can't go wrong with either one.
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Got my smooth on and have a ? Keep in the fridge or room temperature inside
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I store mine in my "shop" which normally does not get much hotter than 75ºF. I have some that was 3 years old and worked fine. The can says to store at room temperature. There may be others that have tried storing in fridge, but I have not tried it.
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Been keeping unibond in freezer with no apparent ill effects. But know nuttin' about smooth on.