Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on July 23, 2015, 05:14:07 pm

Title: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 23, 2015, 05:14:07 pm
This is a piece of BL that I just cut. Are these the normal colors for BL (it's actually a little greener/grayer than the pic shows)? It's the first piece that I've ever seen. Given to me by Bow101(it's still wet Dean) Thank You.

OK Here's the picture. What a bonehead I am :-[
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: bowmo on July 23, 2015, 05:56:54 pm
You forgot the pic...  ::)
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: huisme on July 23, 2015, 07:46:55 pm
Those are about the right colors but I haven't seen locust with that much sapwood in a long time.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 23, 2015, 08:33:38 pm
They are just under 3" in diameter. BL is not a native tree here. There is none on the North Island but there is apparently quite a bit of escaped ornamental BL down Island. I'm chasing a ring on it now. I may have to leave a few rings of sapwood in order to make a bow. I'm enjoying chasing a ring. It makes me feel like a real boyer ;) In the picture the vertical line is where I have to trim it to. The arrow is pointing at the ring I would like to use. I think it is the last sapwood ring, maybe the first heartwood. The piece of wood in the picture is 1"x1".
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: huisme on July 23, 2015, 09:21:13 pm
I'd call that the first heartwood ring.

Looks good from here!
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 23, 2015, 09:27:37 pm
I'm practicing by trying to go the length of the bow on one of the upper sapwood rings. I got past the handle on one and then lost it. Are the heartwood rings easier to chase than the sapwood rings? Also should I go to one ring above my choice and then go back and take the final ring off? Remember, I've never chased a ring, well maybe a wedding ring ;)
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: huisme on July 23, 2015, 09:52:02 pm
The heartwood is a lot easier to chase and I usually go really fast ignoring pin knots to two rings over my final rung, then go slow and careful around the pin knots and finish those with the chisel. If I'm chasing a fairly shallow ring I'll go straight to it but the big stuff around here had a really good year about half an inch into the heartwood ;D

http://imgur.com/a/wM26v (http://imgur.com/a/wM26v)
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 23, 2015, 10:00:06 pm
Thanks, we'll see what happens :D
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: Pat B on July 23, 2015, 11:24:53 pm
How wide is that stave?  I treat locust as a whitewood, making a black locust bow on the wider side, not less than 1 1/2" and 1 3/4" more preferable.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 24, 2015, 12:13:34 am
It's 1 3/4" wide now. I've already cut it to width. It was about 3" dia to start with. I've already started to chase a ring so I will continue until I have one ring on this one. I have another that was the next piece up the tree. It's about 2" but there is only about 3/4" of heartwood. I will try peeling the bark and use the natural back on that one. I would probably have little or no heartwood left when it's finish though.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: huisme on July 24, 2015, 12:29:06 am
Not trying to be contrary but I've had not but good experiences with narrow locust, you just have to make sure it's all working. These two are both about one inch for the full length.

http://imgur.com/a/SSGqQ (http://imgur.com/a/SSGqQ)

http://imgur.com/a/HEIIL (http://imgur.com/a/HEIIL)

You can get some good narrow shorties out of a small diameter locust.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: RBLusthaus on July 24, 2015, 08:17:09 am
Wide limbs and flat bellies are the way to go.  imho. 
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 24, 2015, 10:10:16 am
BL is best with a heartwood back unless there is not enough heartwood for a bow. Then a sapwood back is ok.
Yes, I, too, have made BL bows with sapwood backs but BL is best with a heartwood back.
Jawge
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: Pat B on July 24, 2015, 10:34:29 am
I've also made locust bows narrower but for someone just starting out I think a wider bow would be a better option.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 25, 2015, 01:04:12 pm
The continuing saga. I roughed it out a bit and uncovered these bug holes. Curiously they don't show on the sapwood side and I didn't notice them on the belly until I cut a little deeper. Is it possible that the bugs gained entry a few years ago and then the sapwood grew over them? The sapwood looks untouched on the outside other than the few rings I chased away.  Anyway, since there seems to be the opinion that BL is a little compression weak are these bug holes going to compromise the belly. The picture shows the worst spot but there are a few more scattered around. I can flood them with CA, will it help?
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: Pat B on July 25, 2015, 03:10:56 pm
Our locusts here have grub holes inside like that also. On the belly they shouldn't be a problem unless they also travel longitudinally. You can fill them with saw dust and super glue if they are not too deep.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 25, 2015, 03:19:25 pm
I have to go down a couple more rings on the back. What happens if I hit the end of one of the holes? Then I would have a hole on the back. Not good I wouldn't think. While I'm here, is there any reason not to jump up a ring or two in the handle so one limb would be on a different ring than the other? If that's clear?
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: Pat B on July 25, 2015, 03:22:07 pm
If the holes go through the back, that isn't good. Basically a grain violation.
 You can leave a ring or two on the back of the handle but be sure they don't extend into the working portion of the limb.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: bow101 on July 25, 2015, 03:24:53 pm
Thats what I hate about self bows sometimes you open up a can of worms.  Hopefully it can be saved, you do have the other half and another whole one correct.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 25, 2015, 03:37:01 pm
The other half had a big knot mid limb so it was no good. The smaller one had knots such that I had to cut it into two billets. They look good other than having very little heartwood. Believe it or not now that I have the bark off they are losing around 20 grams a day. Do you remember when you cut it?
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: bow101 on July 25, 2015, 04:25:02 pm
I thought I marked the date on one of them, one was cut around valentines day the other bigger one was cut  last November.   The ends were sealed it should of been sitting at room temp, if so it would be totally dry by now I think.  ???
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 25, 2015, 05:11:24 pm
Nope, when I cut it you could feel the damp and to use your test the sawdust clumped right up. And it's losing almost an ounce a day. I'm thinking that the bark should be stripped, split it and shellac the ends as soon as it's cut.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: carpholeo on July 29, 2015, 02:05:15 pm
Also, when chasing the ring, those magnifying glasses can really help you keep track.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 29, 2015, 02:41:17 pm
I'm hoping it will be a little easier to chase a ring when it's drier. I read somewhere(here I think) about rubbing it with charcoal to show the rings. I'll try that too.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: bow101 on July 29, 2015, 08:10:07 pm
Try lacquer thinner.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 29, 2015, 08:38:36 pm
Lacquer thinner will show the rings?. How does that work? Do you have to mix something with it?
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: bubby on July 29, 2015, 10:16:00 pm
Does it have real thin rings i've only built two black locust bows but the rings were fairly easy to chase
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: huisme on July 30, 2015, 01:09:48 pm
I've chased a paper thin ring just fine when the wood is dry. Damp wood welcomes the blade a little too readily, what you want is to peel between late wood via the early wood.
Title: Re: Black Locust
Post by: DC on July 30, 2015, 01:57:00 pm
It has thin rings where I'm scraping. They get thicker but going deeper increases the risk of uncovering the bug holes I found on the belly. I'll let it dry for a a while. It's still losing 10-15 grams a day.