Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on June 29, 2015, 12:13:16 pm
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I wonder how many of us still have bows from about pre 1995. I think I destroyed all the evidence. I was looking over some of the stats on a paper that Tim Baker gave me on the bows brought to the first Mojam. Most of them were real clunkers. If you go back to the early 1950's 40,s and 30's the bows were very well made even by todays standards. I think heat treating and reflexing has gotten more popular so our bows today will likley perform a little better than the older ones. But looking at the old bows it is obious they knew what they were doing and hasd some good bowyers around then.
Does anyone have any pics from around 1995 give or take a few years? As far as I can tell this looks like the period when we were starting to relearn how to make bows, kind of a re birth of a hobby. My dates might not be accurate as it is just an observation on my part.
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Not the 90's...more like the before the 40's. Several of these bows are still in a friend's position. Most all are yew. Often when I look at some of these pictures I wish could have had a man like this to mentor me and show me what he knows. This is why this site is of so much value to so many.
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Great picture, they had some great bow makers in that era
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This is my first bow. I made it from black locust cut from my property. It has 5 inches of set because it was still wet.. Tiller is all over the place. It still shot well at 45#. I made it 1992 or so. I never kept records.
I have all the ones I made except for the ones that I gave away.
Jawge
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/Jawge/Fibbonacci/IMG_3937.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Jawge/media/Fibbonacci/IMG_3937.jpg.html)
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I made my first in 2005 ...
I've seen meanwhile a lot of pics like above in books like Glenn St . Charles or Laubin and many others.
Here in Europe I think you can only find the English bowmakers and perhaps some Czech or from Poland and the did ELBs.
The big change was your and Tim Bakers work and the others in the Bowyers Bibles.
And let me use the chance to thank you for that!
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My osage bows from the mid 90s were wide, clunky with poorly shaped handles and lousy tillering.
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I still have a couple but they are not much to look at
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I was with group of boyers that used to meet at pasadena once a month. One of them showed up with a yew american long bow that he had bout at a garge sale for $5.00. It just so happened to old guy that made the bow originally was with us that day still building bows. He had built that same bow 50 years earlier. Beautifully made bow the same style most of us make today but no reflex. very slim tips, narrow profile and 8" handle and fades. The bow still shot nicely at 45# right where it was built originally.
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I made my first on 2004. I read "the bent stick" and started carving. It was a vine maple stave, 2" wide to 4" from the tips then tapered to 3/4" nocks or so.. I shot it for a while and killed a couple rabbits with it before it raised a splinter at a pin knot.
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I started after reading the Bowyer Bible vol 1 somewhere around 2006.....I can't thank the authors enough :)
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Got My start in Gary Davis's garage back in the early 90's (92 or 93 I think). Have some pics (somewhere), maybe Wirwicki could post some up? My first bow was a Black Cherry (stave), backed with Pin Cherry bark - came in under weight and quite clunky, but Man was I proud ;). Bob
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My first shooter was a Hickory,66/68 long 2 inches wide to mid limb then tapered to the end, that was in 89/90 :-\ stacked like crazy and the handle ,well lets just say it sucked,2 or 3 inches of string follow, not sure on the weight, I stopped tillering when I could pull it to full draw without it breaking ??? so to say the tiller was off is an understatement. I still have it, I killed a deer with it and like chamookman said ,man was I proud, I will try and remember to get a picture, it hangs in my man cave. :)
Pappy
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Yes Steve, that was before we knew much about heating up wood. We looked for natural reflex in staves to get the most of them. I'll see what I can find for pics. As Bob said, early 90's. Hacked one out in my basement with a Sawzall. It wasn't pretty but the hook was set. Met Bob (Chamookman) and Gary and I couldn't burn the shavings fast enough. The cool thing about the early 90's is that it was "pre-internet". A lot of trial, error and experimenting. There wasn't a whole lot out there. I started with Massey's "The Bowyer's Craft" then the Comstock's "Bent Stick".
Last year, I resurrected an osage bow that I built in 1995 for an elk hunt. It was 64 pounds at 26". As many of us, I was younger then. The bow had a knot hole in one limb which gave it character, but the knot's natural form deflexed the limb in that area. The other limb stood nice and straight. I narrowed the limbs a bit, put it on a form took the bend out at the knot and retillered to 45 pounds. It's now my go-to shooter which I'm very consistent and pretty darned accurate with.
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I don't even count my early 90's years. I broke everything. I got lucky on a couple of laminated bows but all my self bows broke. I think I found jawges web site around 97 or so. Made my first self bow shooter following his instructions. In 96 I bought a bandsaw and got serious but it didn't help my percentages any I was still at 100% broke. Looking back i wish I would have at least bought a book before I ever started.
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I am humbled to know I helped you get your first bow, Badger, and this from 3000+ miles away.
I went through a lot of bow wood... a lot of black locust. I broke a good 14 before I got a hunter...and even after.
I ran out of log staves and went to boards early to mid 90's.
I gotta little help from Bob Holzhauser with tiller.
My younger brother, Lord rest him, and I shot and hunted with FG recurves for many years.
The first bow I made him just folded up on him. He was so apologetic. Of course, it was not his fault.
I later made him a BL sapling bow. He loved it.
Well anyway...
Jawge
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I made my first selfbow back in the mid to late 1980s. The first was a sassafras I think, I cut in my yard in Bluffton, SC.; lots of set and quite sluggish. About that time I ordered "The Bowyers Craft" directly from Jay Massey(signed to me) and shortly after I ordered "Primitive Archery" from Jay(also signed to me). That is what got my juices flowing. Paul Comstock's "the Bent Stick) was next and that book really helped with the wood I was using.
I got married in 1987. My wife's family had a cabin outside of Brevard, NC.(where we live now) and that's when I started using locust. I could buy a fence post for $5. Made lots of locust bows back then but most fretted badly and took lots of set. I still have one of my early locust bows and will post pics later. I called this bow "Killer" because it was my best so far(at the time) and I planned on hunting with it but never did.
I built bows for many years before I had one break. There were many badly bent bows in the line up though. Eventually the breaking began with a run of 4 or 5 in a row. Not long after that I took a class from Vinson Minor to build a boo backed bow. After watching Vinson working the wood I realized I was worrying too much about the wrong things. My bows got better and even better when I started using only a scraper after floor tiller. Since then my bows have been pretty good. That was about the time I signed up for PA. Having all the input from other bowyers and seeing their bows and hearing their methods really made a difference in my bow building.
One day I was reading "Traditional Bowhunter" and saw an ad for a new magazine that would be out in a few months. The name was "Primitive Archer". I wrote a check and mailed it off that day for my subscription to PA Magazine and still have every issue since then.
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Reading this and knowing that even the most seasoned veterans of our craft made all kinds of mistakes and broke countless bows during their early years really does encourage us newer guys. Never give up, never give in, never quit. Persistence pays.
And let me also take this opportunity to thank each and every one of you for the help that you have provided us newbies.
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...and don't throw away your broken or badly bent bows. They can teach you a lot about what happened so you can try to avoid it on the next one. ;)
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I was talking with Pappy about this subject a few months ago. Until I found a copy of PA on the rack and then joined the forum, I hadn't made more than 20 successful bows. I use the term "successful" rather loosely in this context. They were huge, clunky, poorly designed and poorly tillered. Most were lost through attrition over the years. I would get one to hold together for awhile and use it until it blew up and then make a replacement. Sometimes it would take a half dozen attempts to finally get one made. I don't mind telling anyone that finding PA improved my game by a hundred fold. Now there are only two of my earlier bows surviving. One is a red elm sapling bow with at least 3" of set that I gave to my nephew and a monstrous red oak board bow that was at least 2 1/2" at the fades and well over 6' long. I doubt I can even draw it now. Too many years, too many miles, motorcycle crashes and horse wrecks have taken their toll on me since I made that bow. It's been on the wall for a good ten years. I truly wish I had known about you guys years ago. I owe this sight and this community much more than I could ever repay. If anybody is interested, I might get that old board bow down and post a pic or two. It'll be good for a laugh it two I can assure you. Josh
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Josh, that reminds me of an early bow I gave a guy. I stopped by his house a few years ago and saw the bow in his garage. What a monster. He has never even shot it but loves it as a decoration.
I don't think I would have even gotten hooked except that my first laminated bow was actually a success by pure luck. I bought 6 laminations 1/8" thick, maple, cherry, and rosewood. I glued them all together in a big recurve just going by memory. I took the clamps off of it and went shooting. For the next few years everything broke!
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I should add that after the books, I too discovered Primitive Archer Magazine. It seemed to have more about bow building then. And helped me out My first issue was the third magazine they printed. I missed a few inbetween and I since, bought the back issues that I didn't have. I have the entire set. Actually, I have two complete sets. I keep one set at work in my office. Thanks Michael, for donating the set at the Tennessee Classic this year.
More bow building in PA Magazine is my wish. Even us vets don't mind reading what others do. I believe we can never stop learning.
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What a great thread. It's very interesting to hear how you veterans learned to build bows.....from books and occasionally each other. And thank you indeed to those on this site who have been building bows for 15, 20 & 25 years and are so willing to share your knowledge and experiences for us newbies. You are a HUGE asset to those of us still climbing a steep curve. Being involved with the traditional bow community during the past four or five years has been a treat and one of life's blessings. Many thanks all!
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Something else I have wondered about is, are there any known bowyers today who are direct descendants of a steady line of bowyers from the 1940's until the present, maybe only one generation. I have known several guys who claim to have been but there work suggested otherwise.
I bet there are a few but for some reason they had very little impact on the rebirth of this hobby. I do personally know one man Tom Mar, who was building bows in the late 40's. I have seen his work and it is very similar to what we do today. But he had no impact on teaching it to anyone else that I am aware of.
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Steve
I am still shooting a bow that I made in 97
If I am thinking correctly Pa mag started in 92 and the Marshall Primitive Archery Rendezvous started in 93 so you may want to back your date up a couple of years to se the clunky junk, but there has been a big change in the past few years for sure !
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Steve
I am still shooting a bow that I made in 97
If I am thinking correctly Pa mag started in 92 and the Marshall Primitive Archery Rendezvous started in 93 so you may want to back your date up a couple of years to se the clunky junk, but there has been a big change in the past few years for sure !
That could very well be, i found the sight about 1998, until then I was not even aware of any other primitive bowyers. Bows were looking pretty good already by that time.
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I built my first bows back in the early 90's from Hickory saplings after reading Jim Hamm's book on Bow Building. I don't know how many I broke through trial and error till I had a shooter, then I made a beginners' mistake. I let a Buddy shoot it, and he promply pulled it way, back and broke it.
It hasn't happened since then. I then ordered a Hickory blank from Mike Yancey, made a great bow and hunted with it for 3 years and the sold it to a fellow in South Florida. He finally told me it broke around 2012, good bow.
Since then my best bow was an Osage I built in 2003 and still hunt with it. This is a fun ride, you guys enjoy it.
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Something else I have wondered about is, are there any known bowyers today who are direct descendants of a steady line of bowyers from the 1940's until the present, maybe only one generation. I have known several guys who claim to have been but there work suggested otherwise.
Have a look at this interview with Ed Scott
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt0n9W8KHS0
His work does suggest he's been making bows all his life, however, even he only seriously started making bows again in 1999. But he says he learned the basic principles from his uncle when he was a kid, somewhere in the 1950ies.
He's also an author of "Mounted Archery in the Americas".
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Man - "Snail Mail" was My best Friend. I corresponded Jay Massey, John Strunk and was luckey enough they took the time to answer My many questions. Then along came TBB 1 - whoa - system overload :laugh: I'll always be grateful for all those ahead of Me for sharing their wisdom with Me, specially Gary - Thanks GSD ! Bob
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I don't think I think half of us would be able to make bows well as soon as some do if it wasn't for the general kind hearted and giving nature of most bowyers I've talked to. In the world we live in now most people are somewhat unhelpful and sometimes generally rude. It seems as though most people in this hobby are very nice and considerate to others and very helpful. I just want to thank each and everyone of you that have taken the time to reach out to me and others and share your knowledge. Bowyers are different class of people in today's standards and your patience with us rookies is more appreciated than I can ever express with words. So I tip my hat to you and say thank you good sirs.
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I saw one of my first bows a couple of years ago, I had given it to a friend. It was a hickory bow, looked like a boat paddle and was a real dog of a shooter, considering what I make now it was an embarrassment. I took it home, cut it down, backed it with bamboo, narrowed the tips, added exotic burl tip overlays and gave it back to my friend. It was so bad I didn't want anyone to see it before I reworked it.
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Hunting get the Osage bow for me. And then trial and error. Broke a lot from simple mistakes and moved on. Still break Em all the time. I love hate this stuff.
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This definitely isn't my first bow but one of the first that held together. Made plenty of green sapling bows with butcher twine strings before this one. I believe I made this bow in 93 or 94 which would have put me at 13 to 14 years old. Started subscribing to primitive Archer a few issues into the start of the magazine and it certainly help get me off on the right path. I believe this bow is Elm or at least that's my best guess. As you can see it nocks are cut through the growth ring, fat limbs and tips and a severely violated knot. But she held together and I shot many shots out of it. For some reason always hung on this 1 and I'm giving it a good retirement.
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Forgot to add these
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I built my first (serious) bow after reading Saxton Popes writing on "Ishi's method of hunting," back in 2001.
http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/pope/hunting-with-bow-and-arrow/chapter03.html
I don't have a picture of the first but it was rawhide backed.... made from cypress, 48" long and drew 26" at about 30 lbs. Way under built with lots of set.
Here is one from 2004-5... so only ten+ years ago. Its from incense cedar which is not a good bow wood, and somehow the thing survived for several hundred shots 50+" long with a 28" draw.. and a really nasty tiller.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g124/rossfactor/incensecedarprofile.jpg)
Gabe
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Here are a few of my older bows.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/IMG_0060_zpsolzm5wty.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/IMG_0060_zpsolzm5wty.jpg.html)
The first one(on the left) I don't have a date on but I'm guessing it was built in the early 1990s...this is "KILLER", the first bow I felt comfortable hunting with although I didn't hunt with her. She is black locust with frets and lots of set...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/IMG_0061_zpskxtlcqsj.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/IMG_0061_zpskxtlcqsj.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/IMG_0062_zpscbvpwz5n.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/IMG_0062_zpscbvpwz5n.jpg.html)
Next is "Phoenix", also locust with some frets and some set, built in 2005. I did finally realize a better design for locust with her. She is in the middle of the group shot...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/Real%20Estate%20Pictures/IMG_0068_zpshk5fmkyh.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/Real%20Estate%20Pictures/IMG_0068_zpshk5fmkyh.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/IMG_0064_zpskvnaszo4.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/IMG_0064_zpskvnaszo4.jpg.html)
...and finally, "Cinco De Mayo". She is a hickory backed red oak bow, probably my best red oak bow. She was built 5/5/2005(cinco de mayo) and still shoots well today. This bow has been shot by many different people with different draw lengths. I wanted to see if she could take it and obviously she has. She still holds a little over an inch of reflex.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/IMG_0066_zpshigld1hg.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/IMG_0066_zpshigld1hg.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/IMG_0065_zps4gxqid8e.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/IMG_0065_zps4gxqid8e.jpg.html)
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I am still a baby in the game. I haven't had any break, but I have had a few that would have due to mistakes. This community is something else. I have never met a group of people from so many places, so many backgrounds, that are all working to the same end goal. I got my first bow in about 90 or 91. It was a red bear. I shot it till the string broke. Then made a new one from bailing twine I found in a hay field. That led to wheelie bows, and then hunting from there. Since joining this site a little over a year ago I have built several bows. Knives. 2 quivers, several dozen arrows. Aquirred lots of tools, and best of all have gained relationships with lots of people. Also the knowledge of my heritage. Knowledge is the best survival tool. It is weightless. Thanks to all of you who have made, and continue to make this a great place to learn.
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Geez, Pat, just when I've moved on to "better" bow woods you post a killer red oak bow. Very cool 8)
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I just corrected 2 of the pics.
GB, it all in the design. This wide(about 2 1/4") pyramid distributes the stresses over all of the working limb. I probably put about 3" of Perry reflex in at glue up.
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What a great thread! I have been away for to long. I made my first successful bow in 1990 after taking a class from Dave Kissenger in PA. I was going to college at Kent state and guided outside of Yellowstone for trout one summer. One of the other guides had a bow Dave had made it was incredible to say the least. He made works of art. Before his class I turned a sixty foot hickory tree into shavings without a single bow to show for it. I remember shoveling the shavings into a corner of a three car garage til you could not walk in or out, my landlord was a little irritated😁. I still have the bow he helped me make it was nothing to write home about but at the time I was on cloud nine. I think the books like The bowyers Craft and TBB1 ignited the flame and the exchange of ideas and knowledge brought about by the Internet was a forest fire.
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Awesome thread, come on guys post some more no matter what they look like I'm interested in seeing them!
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My first 2 bows were BL and sinewed in 89,90. I built those 2 bows from a boy scout manel build a indain bow. At the time I though all indain bows were sinewed. I still have those 2 bows along with a couple others I built in the mid 90's. I use one that I built in the mid 90's today and have killed 3 bucks and 2 gobblers with it.
I have a vine maple I got a few years back is my next bow. After I finish a osage snake bow and a IROQOUS long bow.
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I switched to all-wood bows in 98 when teaching high school in an Eskimo village. I wanted them shooting with me, and had to teach a woodworking class anyways. TBB and other books came in handy, my first elm bow blew up in front of the class and I got to practice the art of 'starting over'. I shot a nice caribou in '99 with a 58" osage selfbow, 55#... And then it 'ticked' and blew up while practicing with it a month later, also in front of other shooters. Shot my first selfbow moose in 2001 with a 60# osage semi-recurve 52" stacking stick. I gave my dad a hickory bow in 99, and now I want to re-make it so bad when I look at its full width all the way to the tips. He won't let me touch it, though. I also remember going on a drawing hunt for brown bear out of Brown's Lagoon on Kodiak Island in '99.... And my dad raising a skeptical eyebrow at the osage bow I hauled around on that hunt. We had horrible weather and I got to spend a lot of time in the tent, twice reading my first copy of Witchery of Archery.
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This is a great thread so here's my humble addition.
I had shot a lot of archery as a young 'un, lemonwood bows and solid fiberglass bows, arrows made. Eventually a Damon Howatt Hi-Speed recurve
I was shooting black powder quite a bit in the 80s and saw a couple of osage pony bows and then a few more. Hmm, I wonder if I could do that, I think I should try. I was at defunct The Mountain Man store in Manitou Springs, CO in the early 90s, 93 I believe and saw Primitive Archer, what a great magazine. Bought the two different issues they had. Later I picked up Hamm'. s Bows and Arrows and Quivers and made a couple of bows. Scraped, whittled, chopped a couple of primitive bows, broke 'em. Found a copy of the Bent Stick. Let's approach it with a bit more forethought I says. So I measure, take my time and it worked.
Built a nicer shootable hickory flatbow in 1995 or so. Certainly overbuilt, slow, but it's still shooting. Tried some osage, fence post quality, made another overbuilt, slow, flatbow. Took some set but it too is still shooting. Both reside on my rack now mostly. A year or two later made an ELB style osage bow. It was an easy bow to make, fell into nice tiller at once, didn't take any set, and I took that one to the first MoJAM. All were mid 40s or so.
I'm not a prolific bowyer, maybe one or two a year average, sometimes more, sometimes less. I'm sure not in the class of most bowyers I meet at MoJAM. I'm firmly in the camp of 'It flings an arrow and hasn't broke yet" Most I've gifted to others or traded occasionally. I actually shoot bows made by others at MoJAM more than my own. I admit it, they are a lot better.
The internet really opened my eyes to what could be done, even in the halcyon days of Web-TV and dial up. Several internet sites saw my regular patronage.
MoJAM keeps me going, year after year.
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A slight edit to correct an oversight.
MoJAM keeps me going year after year and Primitive Archer fills in until the next MoJAM. A couple of years ago I donated my entire Primitive Archer collection to the Marshall Bow Hunters MoJAM committee for their use.