Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Pat B on June 22, 2015, 08:01:24 am
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Wednesday night at 9pm on Public TV. This show, first in a 5 part series, is about the First People all over the world. Looks pretty interesting.
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Thank you! Calendar is updated.
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Cool, thanks Pat
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Thank you sir.
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Thanks Pat, love to watch stuff like that,now if I could just stay up that late. ??? ;) :)
Pappy
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now if I could just stay up that late. ??? ;) :)
Pappy
Me too. I'll record it! :P
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Ya well maybe I can get Miss Joanie to do that for me, ??? Don't know how to do that stuff. High tech red neck,yes I am. ;) :)
Pappy
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My PVR is set :D
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Recording series
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From the looks of the previews it should be pretty good.
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I got the popcorn and whiskey. :D
Just a half hour to go.
Zuma
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Tonight's show was quite intriguing. Thanks, Pat, for the heads up!
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We had 2 episodes here. There are 5 total.
It was very interesting. I love it when new finds blow the old theories out of the water.
The NOVA show before was about animal intelligence and it was also very interesting. Who would have thought all those dumb animals were so smart! ::)
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Just my take. At least until more solid evidence is presented.
The info true or theory was presented well. All those hairy and
mud clad people running through the bush and interning their dead
in caves.
There is absolutely no evidence for the coastal boat theory.
Clovis camps are usually near springs and not big water.
Forget about the tumultuous west coast. They show the guy in his
kyack in a calm bay lol.
Eren, makes a Clovis point COOL but blows it by guessing that Clovis
folks had atatls. No evidence for this either.
If the Eve lady was really older than the oldest know Clovis site/people---
that does not disqualify her from just being an earlier member of the
Clovis clan. She was not found with any diagnostic tools and her DNA
is the same as Clovis.
Also this thinking should apply to the folks that may, I say may have
stuck a bone point in a mastodon. Clovis is known to have
used bone points.
Neat to see the DNA results on Kenniwick Man and Neanderthal.
Also the new DNA results for modern man--- Now modern/ancient
man is really more like it.
I could never have embraced the old out of Africa mitochondria theory.
Devils advocate, >:D >:DZuma
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I thought it was interesting.
Zuma, Just throwing out a scenario here. You say there is no evidence of the coastal migration, and that Clovis camped near springs, not big water. If a migration had came down the west coast during one of the glaciated periods, and the sea levels were lower than current levels, wouldn't the places that the people camped/stayed be under water off the coast, and not easily accessible or located? This could account for the lack of evidence. And as far as the tumultuous west coast, we cannot know the conditions that existed along the shoreline 15000 years ago. It may have been calmer than now. I really do not have an opinion either way, just being another devils advocate >:D
Neal
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I don't think that migrating down the coast of BC would be a big deal. There are just as many calm days as windy. They would probably move twenty miles or so and then stop for a few days/weeks/months. There are hundreds of coves and islands to duck behind if the weather comes up. The longest stretch with few coves would be on the south end of the Island and that's 30-40 miles. I don't think the weather would be much different than it is now. Most of our weather comes from the Pacific and I don't think that has changed in the last 20,000 years or longer. With the human mindset that the grass is always greener I'm actually surprised that it didn't happen sooner.
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Zuma, If a migration had came down the west coast during one of the glaciated periods, and the sea levels were lower than current levels, wouldn't the places that the people camped/stayed be under water off the coast, and not easily accessible or located? Sure it's possible if any boat ever discovered in the world was that old. The oldest river boat I could find was less than half the age of Clovis.
This could account for the lack of evidence.
Yes but it's merly speculation.
And as far as the tumultuous west coast, we cannot know the conditions that existed along the shoreline 15000 years ago. Oh yes science can and does know.
It may have been calmer than now.
Even if it was, it would be such a dangerous and exhausting journey for thousands of miles and dragging ladies and such in tiny skin boats would be a super chore and take many, many years to get enough people to central America or further south to establish a colony big enough to spread through the Americas by the earliest times of Clovis.
Neal
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There is also a theory of western Europeans(Scandinavians and Irish) paddled/sailed along the ice from Europe to North America. I'd say it is possible from both directions. The Polynesians sailed all over the Southern Pacific to inhabit many islands and lands so why shouldn't other societies do the same in other parts of the world?
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There is also a theory of western Europeans(Scandinavians and Irish) paddled/sailed along the ice from Europe to North America. I'd say it is possible from both directions."
Pat please read my thread " Overshot and Over Atlantic Ice lol" flintknapping forum.
I'd post a link but they never work for me. The guy that made the Clovis point last night, Eren et al has pretty much destroyed the Solutrean Hypothesis Quite recently. Although the Vikings did do it 1,000 or so years ago.
"The Polynesians sailed all over the Southern Pacific to inhabit many islands and lands so why shouldn't other societies do the same in other parts of the world?"
Yes they did Pat but the dates are way more recent. Wind direction and ocean currents could have played a big role. I haven't really checked but I think the voyage from Siberia to the west coast of the Americas would not be any where near as pleasant even today.Brrrr Think Humbolt Current.
I don't mean to be a stick in the mud but I am trying to get some mileage out of all my research.LOL Remember it's just my opinion.
I think knocking these ideas around is good stuff.
Zuma
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I love it all and my research is limited so I appreciate your knowledge. We are all here to learn. I think its interesting how much has changed in the last few years since DNA testing has come about. I keep an open mind when it comes to history. ;)
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,52969.0.html
Here's that link zuma
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It's back on tonight. It was on last Wednesday also.
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I forgot. Thanks!
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Just chiming in on the speculation.
There is a website claiming that maternal DNA markers found in polynesian ancestry are also found in the Haida Gwaii first nations people. Some oral traditions and stylized knives and headwear are also somewhat linked to hawaii.
However, there is also clovis evidence in a cave called Gaadu on the Haida Gwaii which was dated to around 13,000 bc that had the remains of grizzly bears and clovis points. There are no grizzlies on the haida gwaii currently.
There are a few crackpot theories of Icelandic "norse" settlement on the west coast, with several folks going to the extremes (fake runes carved into rocks, planted evidence) to try and make it into the history books.
The reason the norse "vikings" left north america(baffin island, nfld) was because of a cooling climate. It can be interpreted that the temperatures where much warmer in the northern hemisphere 5,000 -1500 years ago.
As for the west coast.... the Haida Gwaii routinely paddled to Vancouver for raids. It's a long journey, pretty much Alaska to Washington.
Also surfing season is in the winter here. We get high pressure that locks in and keeps the ocean flat for months. That is why we can catch so much tasty halibut. (Good jigging weather)
My .00 cents (we got rid of the penny and round down now)
(Edited some dates and names)
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There is a website claiming that maternal DNA markers found in polynesian ancestry are also found in the Haida Gwaii first nations people. Some oral traditions and stylized knives and headwear are also somewhat linked to hawaii.
Do you have a link?
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Thanks for posting the link bubby.
I wish I could make them work??
Pat, I just have more time than most
to do current research. (retired).
I hope you-all check out the interactive
pre Clovis map. It is very informative and
easy to use.
Zuma
PS I have a lot of DNA material I can't
post here but would share on a PM
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Do a search on Mitochondrial Eve. Good stuff. We all came from that one human, except 2 people in the entire study. Just reading about it kept me up one night till after 1 AM.
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Joe, some folks don't want to believe that. They were created 6000 years ago so they aren't related to Mitochondrial Eve. ::)
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;) they aren't forced to believe. But, facts is facts.
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;)