Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ty_in_ND on June 12, 2015, 06:50:06 pm
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Hello!
I've been reading these forums for the past 6 month now and have learned so much in regards to bow making. I can't thank you all enough for both sharing your knowledge with the world and for sharing your works-in-progress. As a lurker, I've learned just as much from people posting questions and their mistakes in addition to all the experienced bowyers showing off their latest works.
While I was hoping my first post on PA would be showing a bow inspired by one of the vets (I'll say who when I'm finished, but it's in the works!), something came up that I needed some advice on. A few hours ago, a friend of mine felled a 50 ft tree he called a "golden ash". A quick Google search indicated a golden ash is European Ash. Regardless of what kind of ash it is, I'd like to turn it into bows! He managed to cut three pretty decent sized logs for me to potentially turn into staves.
Provided is a picture of the logs. The thickest one is the trunk and is about 6 1/2 ft long. The other two are close to 8 ft and are the main branches of the trunk. My friend said there was no rot in any of the wood and there are a few places on all the logs where there were no branches or knots. He also said the trunk log was pretty dry and the to main branches had some moisture as they got further from the ground.
So, are any of these logs worth investing the time into? If so, I won't be able to get up to his place (he lives 90 minutes away) until closer to the end of June. With that in mind, is there anything you'd do to the logs to prep them for splitting with that time frame in mind?
Thanks in advance for your advice and I'll try to get more information if requested! Have a good day!!
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Welcome to PA! I'm not certain myself about golden ash, as far as I know european ash is good bow wood. I'm sure someone here will chime in who has worked with it. As far as prep goes, I'd peel the bark asap, split it, and get the ends sealed.
If you can't do that for a couple weeks, at least make sure he stores them for you up off the ground. White woods tend to rot in a hurry.
Tattoo Dave
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ty
There have been quite a few ash bows posted here form "across the pond" so I assume that they were using European ash. Ash will make you a good bow with the right treatment and design.
As to the timing, it is what it is so I would suggest that you leave 'em bark on for now and see if your friend can get them up off the ground (maybe saw horses?) till you can get to em. Then cut a kerf (I use a chainsaw) down the center from end to end then get your hammer and wedges.
Because of ash borers I would recommend debarking and then sealing the ends and back. Some will say ash is not worth it, but in my opinion the wood is down so dont waste it.
rich
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Thanks for the replies Dave and Rich.
As far as I know, there haven't been any EAB reports in North Dakota yet, so unless there are any other bugs to be concerned with, I'll not rush over there to get them split. Also, my friend said he will keep the logs off of the ground and covered. If it sounds like it'll be fine to leave the logs like this for a short time, then I guess that'll have to do.
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I've never used that wood nor have I used a branch so take my remarks with a grain of salt.
I would seal the ends pronto, split the staves and remove the bark.
On most whitewoods the bark will come off quickly and easily soon after they are cut if cut during the growing season.
Wait a month and that bark will cement itself to the stave.
I straddle the log when splitting.
I split using an old camp hatchet, 2 lb hand-sledge and 2 iron wedges. I just alternate them. Nice leather gloves and safety glasses are a must especially if a piece of iron flies off one of the wedges.
I split in halves, then quarters and so on. I start the split on the small end.
Jawge
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When was the wood cut and how has it been stored? What did your friend cover the wood with while storing it. The reason I ask is ash, like most whitewoods is very susceptible to fungal infection and once cut it can be infected easily if not stored properly.
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I have made several bows from ash. Not certain on species specifically. But I will tell you this for a fact. If the rings are very porous walk away. Use it fore something else. Just not bows or arrows. It breaks too dang easy. Broke every one I made that had more early wood than late but ever one that had good late and less early wood, I got fine bows of.
Get the logs off the ground and paint the ends with cheap latex paint.
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I have made tvo bows of different design from european ash,one mollegabet and a elb style bow and im very happy with both.
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...at least split them in half to let them release their moisture, seal the ends and store them under cover with good air circulation.
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Jawge - Thanks for the splitting advice. Since you chimed in, I'd like to say that your site has also been a good learning tool, so thanks for your efforts in putting it together!
Pat B. - All the cutting happened yesterday afternoon. For the moment, my friend plans on keeping it in some kind of bucket in some kind of big machinery he has and covering it with a tarp. The wood has been like that for the past 18 hours.
sleek - I was thinking of having him paint the cut ends yesterday, but I'm glad I waited! I'll see if he can take a few pictures of the cut ends and I'll try to get them posted when I get them (as I'm not too terribly familiar with ash).
dbb - That's good to hear! From what I've read, it seems most ash will make a good bow if you make it right (and if it's in the right condition, which was the main point of my post).
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And Pat, while ideally I would do what you just suggested, I nor my friend (who is more than willing to help me split the stuff) will have any time to get to it until at least after Father's Day.
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If you can't split it until after Fathers Day you should at least store it in the dry. Two weeks is plenty of time for fungi to get established and ash would be very susceptible.
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Well, I'll take that into strong consideration, Pat. I guess, for now, I'll hold off until I can see some pictures of what the cut ends look like. I'd hate to spend a ton of time driving to his place only to find the wood is mostly early wood (as sleek brought up).
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Well, here's some more pictures of the cut ends of the tree. Unfortunately, my friend had a busy weekend, so he just took these pictures an hour ago. If things don't look too bad from the pictures, I think I might have some time to swing to his place tomorrow. If it's too late for this pile of wood (or if the rings indicate more early wood than late wood), then to the fire wood pile it will go.
Thanks again for your input!
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Fungi thrives in a moist environment. The sooner you get it in the dry, the better. Splitting will give the moisture a place to escape. During the warmer months the sooner moisture reduction begins, the better.
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Glad you have used my site, Ty. Thanks for the kind words.
Now, split'em and make'em. :)
Jawge
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Hi,
I do not know if this will help much, but, I live in the UK and have a lot of experience making flatbows successfully with Ash. Living in England I am assuming it will be near enough to the Ash we have here? You say its called european Ash??
I do not get anything as near as wide as those logs you have, but, I generally split my logs as soon as I cut them and take the bark off and seal the ends with PVA glue and leave it a month and then work the Ash down slowly to near finished bow by floor tillering slowly and let it dry as I go. Just have to be careful with the floor tiller and not bend it too far while its still too wet. You could damage the wood on the belly if you push it too far, too early. This staggered approached has worked for me with the Ash I work, when it is drying.
My ash bows are normally between 2" - 1 3/4" wide for the limbs from the fade to mid limb and then taper to 1/2" nocks in width , 4" handle with 2" fades wither side, so you have 8" non- working limb area and about 32" for each limb. That gives a nice over length of about 72". By keeping Ash long and wide like this, you are increasing your chances of success to make a bow that won't break on your first attempt. Taper the thickness of the limbs from where the limb begins at the fade to the nock. It is really important that you get the thickness taper correct, spend a lot of time checking the thickness taper over and over. IF you do, the tiller will be correct, as Paul Comstock said 'good taper is good tiller' and he was right.
Make your handle about 1" thick or a bit more if you want. I normally make my handles about 3/4" wide, you can get away with 11/16" handle width if the handle is deep enough.
This is the style of bow Paul Comstock teaches people to make in the book 'bent stick' using white woods. I have a library of bowyer books and I have to say if you are working with Ash or any white wood, this book really is the easiest to follow and best bang for your buck as a beginner, I strongly recommend it.
If white wood will be your future go to wood, long and wide flatbows provide fun free shooting with low set. If you have a real fetish for longbows with stacked/deep bellies, I would not suggest you try it with your Ash as a first attempt, in my humble opinion. It can be done with Ash, you just need the correct wood and a lot of heat treating.
Good luck with the Ash,
Dean.
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Hello again!
Well, I didn't get to the friend's place as early as I'd hoped after reading the advice posted from some of you, but I did just get back with 4 staves in tow along with a 5th stave that my friend will kindly cut off some of the heartwood with his bandsaw (the "stave" is practically 6 inches by 6 inches by 7 ft... a bit much for me to haul back along with the other staves). As far as I can tell, the wood looks free of insects and other contaminates, so it looks like I lucked out this time. Hearing about the cutting of this tree was very last minute, so we all tried our best to get things done in a timely manner. Next time (he has a good straight elm tree he needs to cut soon as it's too close to the garage!) I'll be sure to get it done quicker.
As for the ones I brought back, they are in the garage waiting for me to peel the bark and seal. I'll post the pictures of the finished staves after I'm done with them, but I can already tell you I'll have a bit of a challenge ahead of me with a couple of them. 2 of them I've already decided I'm going to cut into billets and then splice them together, as the tree started to twist and bend about 4ft from the trunk, but the wood before the twist/bent is nice and straight. From my eye (for what it's worth), it looks like the growth rings near the bark are pretty thick and the thickest bits of those rings are the late growth, so I think I should be able to wrangle a bow or two from this wood (as long as I do my part!).
Thanks again for all the advice! And thanks Dean for your suggestions with what to do with said ash (I did read your comment a while back, but I didn't get a chance to post until just now). I was planning on making one wide, flat, and long with a stiff handle, but it's good to hear someone doing this and having success with it. It's also good to hear how you processed the ash... I'll probably let mine sit until the winter, as I get pretty busy at my job in the late summer and autumn (plus archery and rifle whitetail season!). On the plus side, winters in this part of the country are very low in humidity (as well as temps...) , so working on the bow then should work out well.