Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Rcdeer on April 04, 2015, 08:07:29 am
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hey guys,,been offline since july but back now..i hope..anyway ahave a newly made holmegaard bow..an it's a lefty..my problem is,,the string is "too" centered... meaning when arrow is nocked, the arrow rest against belly side of arrow rest but not out to back of bow making arrow shoot to the right...can I .....(actually makes sense in my head..but,,best check lol) if I file the string nock on the left side of bow deeper (the are not even full string depth now) wouldn't that move string center right? not planning on too much filing and there is enough wood..just wondering if my thinkin be right.. thanks! RC
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If i'm understanding correctly, your string is well centered, but the arrow is contacting the arrow pass to close to the belly, right? If so, then what I would do is work the arrow pass down until the arrow contacts where you want it to. If the string is tracking down the center of the handle, I wouldn't mess with the nocks. But that's just one opinion. I'm sure you'll get many more.
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If it's a self bow a small tweak at the handle with heat may help, maybe reduce the handle if you have the meat or try a lighter spine arrow.filing the nocks should help some or even cut in side nocks are a few options. But the string being to centered has never been a problem for me.sounds more like a handle problem not being square.?
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thanks for the replies! I should've mentioned the handle/arrow rest are narrow enough that I wouldn't want to cut anymore on there..truly not sure if I could cut away enough to straighten arrow out on rest... I'm not sure how much filing the string nock will move the string over, but with arrow nocked it doesn't take alot of pressure to 'straighten" arrow on rest.. not even sure where string is suppose to line up on a holmegaard...just seems if centered ,arrow rest would almost have to be centered too...any help/advice/even a gibbs slap-- is appreciated RC
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Many bows shoot fine with the arrow resting off center. There needs to be a harmony between the bow and your arrows. Its possible that your arrows are too stiff and don't bend/paradox around the bow when shot.
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hmmm.. well bow is #50, an arrows are for a #50..right now i'm shooting about 6-8" to the right @15yds....
not sure how far I could drop....or rather afford to drop...lol
tryin to post pic but says can't be saved,,,,drat..
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maybe..
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if the rest is not cut into the bow,,, maybe try shooting the bow with the bottom limb up,, if that does not work,, then adjusting the handle slightly ,,also loosen your grip when shooting :)
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If youre hitting right and are a lefty, sounds like your spine is too stiff. Most selfbows are not center shot and shoot just fine. Your dynamic spine of arrows should be 5-10# under your bow weight to allow the paradox around the handle. An easy way is to increase your point weight, and see if that improves it.
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bradsmith..there is a rest cut in bow already..the arrow,when nocked lays against belly side of bow but then angles out away from bow...really don't want to cut any more away there...but Thanks! Bubbles,, I can try heavier tips, maybe even find a lighter spined arrow to try..this bow shoots well...and consistent...an always to the right lol be okay if deer was goin that way I guess!
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i didnt mean cut the handle more,, maybe adjust with heat and bend it just a bit,, Its a good idea to not cut a rest in case you need to make adjustments,,, just gives you more options if the bow needs a bit of tuning or if you need to flip the bow to get it to shoot good,, also what is your brace height,, I really dont think the arrow spine is the problem,, you can try a longer arrow,, it will shoot more toward the left,, seems to have more effect on point of impact than just a lighter spine,,something about how much arrow is in front of the bow at release,, you might try shooting it with the bottom limb up anyway,, just to see what it does :)
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I could try a longer arrow fer sure,,but heatin and bendin a bow scares the bejeebers outa me..! this bow was made for me by a good friend ,,it might be 6th or 7th one he's ever built...and he learns abit every day...(although..he did mention he'd never make another holmegaard! lol) I'm jus tryin to get this to shoot without having to adjust my aim to get arrow where it should go...the filing the string nock seemed to be an answer,,,but I figured I best check first and I knrw this forum was best place to get a good honest answer..I also have a shagbark hickory stave I plan on trying...to make a bow out of so i'm learning a lil everyday..every bit of info and experience helps!
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well you just dont have that much nock to file,, but every little bit will help,,try that and longer arrow and it should come over some,, and what is the brace,,, if not to high, raising it a bit will help also
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Maybe I'm miss-understanding, but...
It sounds like you just need to adjust the arrow pass a whisker and shoot weaker spined arrows.
With an arrow nocked on the string at brace, the arrow should touch the bow midway between belly and back.
If that's not happening just rasp a little off the belly where the arrow touches, you don't need to cut a notch.
I have a cabinet rasp, V fine cut one side coarse the other.
I put it on the arrow pass with the coarse side against the wood with the bow braced and the string pressing on the smooth side and gently draw rasp and string back and forth so it cuts in line with the arrow travel.
Hang on, I'll do a sketch to show what I mean...
These little bits of tuning can make a big difference, especially if the brace it taken up say an extra 1/4"
Del
BTW. Surely that's a Mollegabet not a Holmgaard?
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nice sketch, ,that will help for sure
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well Del, that makes sense. (yes! the picture helped!) still a lil nervous about taking any wood off there...I had a holmegaard before..broke in florida,,, broke my heart. had a mollgebet,,broke in n.y. (was only 3 weeks old we weren't attached yet,,) this one was made according to holmegaard plans he had.. hard to tell from pic but it's way closer to a holmegaard than not.. and I really enjoy shooting it..even to the right...lol..I may have to try several things to get this right.(or left as case may be) jus hate to scale any wood off here if not a necessity.. Thank You! you all are great! knowed this was place to come!! thanks again! any other suggestions are welcome! RC
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Many bows shoot fine with the arrow resting off center. There needs to be a harmony between the bow and your arrows. Its possible that your arrows are too stiff and don't bend/paradox around the bow when shot.
Agreed. Try shooting arrows spined at 45#, 40#, or even 35#. You will get straight flight.
Your bow is not center shot so you need weaker arrows as ryoon explained.
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Bradsmith and Del..brace height is 6"...same as thumb/fist thing.could maybe raise it abit..will try lighter arrows first...maybe longer if i can find some..before I get to need filing! sure do appreciate all the advice!! way way ahead of where I was this morn! THANK YOU!!
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just because a bow is not center shot,, does not always indicate need for light spine arrows,, if you have to shoot a 35 spine arrow from your 50# bow then something is really not matched( or you may not be drawing the bow close to 28),, maybe the bow is not really 50# or has a cast similar to a 35 pound bow,,
a well made 50# bow,,not center shot will shoot at a 29 inch arrow 50# or 60# spine drawn to 28 inches very well, I would have to say that going down in spine is not necessary most the time,,, it may be possible that you are not drawing the bow to the draw length that would make the bow weigh 50#,, making the spine of the arrows too stiff and shooting to the right :) and yes the string alignment is probably part of the problem,,I have been making bows for more than 20 years and have never had to shoot a 35# spine out of a 50# bow to get perfect arrow flight,, :)
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Thank you for your input again Brad,, I figure shooting a lighter spined or even tryin a longer arrow cannot hurt to try..as for the bow #, I checked it @28" and it is a #50.. also know...close as I can..that I am drawing 28" as for "cast"? I have no idea..im just goin to try a few things that do not involve changing the bow and see if they change anything..if not,may try the nock a touch and maybe try Del's idea with the rasp..we'll see if weather coops monday thanks!
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you have the right idea,, try the things that are not bow aggressive first,, you will get it tuned in :)
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"he said hopefully!" lol
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If I read your early posts right, your arrows are flying good, but consistently grouping to the right. What type of aiming method do you use. Sounds to me like you are not adjusting to a selfbow, and is not an equipment problem. Where you shooting recurves or compounds before?
I shot recurves all my life until about 4 years ago when I decided to make my 1st Osage pyramid selfbow. I was getting good arrow flight out of wood and carbon arrows both, it grouping consistingly to the left. I always shot subconsciously"instinctive", and ended up training my self to "gun barrel" or look down the shaft to establish my line. Solved the problem all together. Now if I pick up a recurve I have to purposely aim left or I will be way right.
If I hold one of my selfbows out with an arrow nocked it angles off to the left just like you described.
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thanks for your reply bentstick! but i have not shot a recurve or compound bow in years..selfbows only...first holmegaard I had..I had to learn to shoot with both eyes open,,an eventually got lots better with it,,till it broke,,,..this one you can actually see the strung arrow aiming off the rest to the right..haven't had a chance yet to try any of the ideas above but I'll get to it soon. course,,,i could improve myself too!
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RcDeer, I forgot to mention that I am right handed shooter therefore my arrow pass is on left side. I put a 28" arrow on one of my braced pyramids and hAve the same situation you describe. If I measure from a line of the center of my handle(string) , 90degrees over to the point of the arrow, the point is 4" out to the left. The arrow shaft touchs the closest point of the handle/arrow pass to the string. If the arrow is pointed at your target and the bow is pointed six inches to the left, if the arrow is flying straight, the arrow should fly where "iT" is pointed.
Almost everyone that shoots one of my pyramids has the same problem. They try to shoot them with their hand pointing to the target and not the arrow, as if they were shooting a bow with a deeper cut in arrow pass. Once I show them to point the arrow and not their hand, it falls into place.
I am not an expert but just my experience. Good luck.
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You need to adjust the side of the handle. The bow will not fold in half because you've tweaked the shape of the side of the grip.
Filing nock grooves won't make hardly any difference and isn't a good idea. Heat is unlikely to work just how you want especially without any bow making experience.
BEFORE you start messing with spine etc the arrow when nocked should be touching the middle of the grip. Get this right first. Then you can 'tune' your arrows to the bow.
Adjusting spine to get arrows to fly out of a bow that needs work is a little backward ;)
If I was picking arrows for a 50#@28 with a 1 inch or so wide handle (not to be centershot) then my starting point would be 45# spine. As you get closer to centershot you would be getting towards 60# spine.
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Bentstick..I shall put that on list of things to try,,,but that'll be like startin all over! lol,, but be interesin to see what happens thanks!
Mikekeswick..."You need to adjust the side of the handle. The bow will not fold in half because you've tweaked the shape of the side of the grip." I have no idea what that says,, I've read an reread..jus don't get it..???
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Mike is trying to tell you basically the same thing I did. You want to take a little off the arrow pass, so that your contact point is where you want it, and it won't take much. Certainly not enough to weaken your handle in any meaningful way.
Here's a visual aid to show you what we mean. The green "x" marks the arrow contact point. You just want to rasp a little off so that you move your contact point forward as shown on the right in the pic.
(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab359/J05H/visual%20aid.png)
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+1.
That's exactly what I was sayin' and I did a pic too...
except I want a gold star 'cos I said it first ::) ;)
Del
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Del - you've got to admit it is a good picture tho!
JO5H - That's it! A picture paints a thousand words!
RCDeer- Do what's in the picture do not bother with anything else. It's a simple fix.
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Okay! got it now..I see what your sayin! thanks! now, if only I can get a gold star...in rasping? lol thanks!
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so far..tried everything except heavier tips,,got none.. every arrow i have around..still way right..so I Rasped..a bit..slowly..cautiously..carefully,,,seems to be bringing arrow left...then it rained...arrow should "rest" on the center of the arrow rest....right?.. appears to now or..I have successfully bent all my wood arrows to the left! let ya know! thanks!
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arrow should "rest" on the center of the arrow rest....right?
Basically yes, but I want to clarify some terminology. The arrow rest( a.k.a. the arrow shelf) is not the same as the arrow pass. An arrow rest is what the arrow sits on and its not always present. Some people like to shoot off the hand. An arrow pass is always present. Its where the arrow touches the side of the bow when drawn and when shot.
You want your arrow to touch both the arrow pass and the shelf about midway between the belly and the back.
| |
arrow pass -------------> | |
arrow rest/shelf --------> __| |
\ |
\ |
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yep...gotcha! I meant the arrow pass..thanks!
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Better!!!! shot some after rain....dang! think we got it guys! filing the arrow pass seems to helped right the arrow back left!!! Thanks!
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I'm glad you got it straightened out. Hopefully your bad luck streak is over and this one won't break on you. Good luck, man.
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So So Soooo Much Better! bow shooting great! thank you all for the arrow pass info.....even the builder learned something Thank You All! RC :)
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Glad it all worked out for you. Would like to see a close up photo of your reworked arrow pass. It might help me on the bows that I build.
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I'd like to see me pull that off too! lol I'll try in the morn...sooo by sunday............lol
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pics maybe?
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Thx for the photos. My handles are about 7/8" wide and 1-1/4" from front to back.the big difference is I do not cut in a shelf and arrow pass. I glue a leather locator type of rest onto the side of the handle.
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Pretty sure I'd be hittin my neighbors target if this one wasn't cut in..lol.. I didn't make this one..but I'd have a real problem cutting into any bow after havin so many break.............thicker be better... It is surprising how jus a small amount of wood in wrong spot can change the flight! RC