Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Marc St Louis on January 21, 2008, 07:34:52 pm
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I don't make a lot of character bows but I cut this Hawthorn several years ago and a few months ago I saw the stave sitting in there with my "good" staves all crooked so I figured it was time to either make a bow with it or use it for firewood. I decided to go for a bow. Here is what I made.
The bow is 64" long and because Hawthorne does not grow big up here is only 1 1/4" wide. The wood is strong and this rather small "tree" made a bow that pulls 50# @ 28". I was quite surprised at how strong and elastic this wood is. If it grew to a bigger size it would be a wood I would be actively harvesting. Here's a few pictures
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Selfbows/Hawthorne/BackandSide.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Selfbows/Hawthorne/BracedBellyandSide.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Selfbows/Hawthorne/Fulldraw_3.jpg)
Unfortunately my full draw has a few inches missing from the top. You can see from the braced belly picture that the limbs do a bit of twisting but the string bisects the handle.
I brought this bow with me on a trip North a few weeks ago thinking I would have time to do some work on it. The bow was tillered but it still needed some sanding. In a restaurant in one town we came across a couple of guys that had an interest in archery and one guy in particular had used traditional bows in the past. I let him hold the braced bow, which was a mistake as he immediately drew the bow back to full draw and held it there for nearly a minute. I didn't say anything but when he did it again I cautioned him that holding a wood bow at full draw like that was not good for it. When I unbraced the bow I was pleased to see that the experience did not have any adverse effect to it. It had not lost any reflex and still had good string tension. If you have access to Hawthorn then I would suggest you try it
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That is a great looking bow Marc. That unbraced profile would scare me away. ;) How does it shoot? Justin
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>>drew the bow back to full draw and held it there for nearly a minute<<
Why do people do that? I've had that happen and it scared me to death! ???
Great bow.
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looks great, excellent character. your much more patient than i am, i woulda been jumping up and down til he let off of her. - Ryan
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nice looking bow. the unbraced profile makes me want to break out the heat gun.
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Looks great. Well done, Marc. Jawge
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Interesting bow Marc, everything from the shape of the handle, one limb more reflexed than the other,
and not to mention the offset limbs all say master bowyer. Very Nice
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It looks really good ,Marc.I think I'd break out the heat gun too.
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for those who don't know it Marc is fairly low-key ( meaning that he doesn't seem to get upset or tense very easily ).
...though I can see him making a "snappy" ;) remark had the bow broken and smacked the guy on the head.
cool bow Marc!!
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Very nice. I am pretty sure I have seen a lot of hawthorn around. It has long thorns right?
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Cool bow Marc! I wouldn't know Hawthorne from any other wood I've never seen before but looks like It'll do the job :).
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Great bow and well tillered. I especially like the handle. :)
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Marc you managed to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
I looked up what the leaves looked like and found this: "In Irish folklore the hawthorn, or whitethorn, is also sometimes referred to as the fairy bush, and it was considered bad luck to cut it in fear of offending the fairies that inhabit the tree."
Now you've done it.
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I really like how you left it natural Marc, nice job. My brother-in-law once pulled a bamboo backed hickory that I made back to his ear and held forever. Needless to say it took a lot of set. >:(
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Great looking bow Marc.Love those character bows.tradrick
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Thanks for the compliments guys. The Hawthorn that grow up here are fairly small and this one at about 2" in diameter was a big one. Hawthorn does have thorns and in the Fall it has a clump of bright red berries that are edible but the berries have 3 large pits in them with very little flesh on them. Bears like to eat them when they are ripe
To cold to be doing any shooting up here Justin, -35 tonight with daytime highs of about -20.
I did use the heat gun Chris but only to take the deflex out from the top limb.
Yes if the bow had broken I would not have been happy but it was good to see how well the bow took being held back at full draw for such a long time.
Lennie. I think I have read that Hawthorn also has medicinal properties.
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I always remove the string when if I think I'm going to be showing a bow around folks that are not familiar with wooden bows. That's because invariably someone will ask me to brace it and then hold it. Then it only takes a split second before they have the string by their ear.
That's a cool bow Marc. I've got a few hawthorne staves - you've got me thinking...
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Marc that is a testement to your ability..great bow....Brian
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Nice job on that one Marc, you got a lot out of that piece of wood. There sure is something about these bows that makes people who don't know much about them want to pull them as far as they can and then hold them there as long as possible.
Alan
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That's a good lookin' bow from a knarley piece of wood! ;)
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Gordon.
Generally that is what I do also but the man I passed the braced bow to claimed to have used a traditional bow before and said he used to go hunting with it. In fact I think he said he had made bows in the past, he was an older fellow.
I have passed unbraced bows to guys that didn't know anything about bows that bend the bow backwards by grabbing the tips with their hands and the handle against their chest. This is especially so when the bow is not your standard looking bow. You come across all types over the years and the only way to be sure is not to pass them the bow at all, but then you don't arouse curiosity that way.
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Looks like a nice bow, Marc.
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Hi Mark
Very nice bow, I am glad to see someone else using hawthorn. I have made a couple of bow from it and found it to be a very strong wood even when it is full of knots. Here in the UK it can grow to large size but I prefer to cut small branches.
I will post a few pictures of my bows when get chance.
Peter.
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Good Job, Marc. I have made a few hawthorn bows and have a dandy branch curing under my deck. Hope it turns out as well as yours. We'll look at it again next week for Jan Self Bow of the Month.
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Great looking bow Marc,nice profile and I love the character.Nice job. :)
Pappy
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inspiring bow there Marc !!! :)
This spring I went walking along the river banks that were just loaded with Hawthorne shrubs...
after a half day of hiking and searching I found some pieces that may make a bow,,,, maybe..
closer examination revealed twists and spiral grain that I'm not sure is workable.
They sure like to grow gnarley!!!!!
So they sit, waiting.
waiting for some inspiration...
Now that I have some I just may see what suprises are instore....
Did your bark look like this? I'm thinkin a Hawthorne is a Hawthorne,,but.... :D
If I have any luck I'll post, if not.... ::)
Oh ya,, love your bow! ;D
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Great looking bow, the unstrung pic really shows the character of the wood. You did a perfect job of tillering it.
VB
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As mothern nature gave it, some chips as a firestarter and the bow is finished. I like these kinds of bows.
Well done. Is this a special american wood? I don`t know the name. I think I didn`t read it in PA, nore in TBB.
Regards Uwe
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Yes, as Peter said, we have lots of this in the UK, but I have never seen anything I could make a bow out of - far too many branches.
And yes, they say it's bad luck to bring this stuff into the house :-\
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I know that further South Hawthorn grows to a bigger size, it may even be a different species because the thorns are much bigger. My sister lives by Barrie and there are some growing there at least double in diameter but they seem to branch out sooner.
The bark did look like that tpoof
It's a good thing I don't live in the UK :)
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Marc, I think you just gave me an idea on handing anyone my bow or a bow I made. I'm gonna hand it to them with a disclaimer( don't hold a t full draw if you don't mind) and ask them their draw length to make sure it isn't too much further from mine ( especially if they are noticably bigger) . I cringe when you were telling the story.
Nice work on the bow too but then again we have come to expect that from you . Danny
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Hey Mark!!
Your job is allways inspiring but, this time, is one o these moments when you REALLY value that a well made selfbow out of these "forgotten" species such as "Hawthorn" ,performs AMAZINGLY WELL!!... ;) :)....
Hopefully we have (In the Basque Country) A LOT of EXCELLENT Hawthorns for all types of bows!!..
Allthough, I have to try it for now.
So far only made a "Black Hawthorn" (Prunus Spinosa) shortie that I have to post soon and have a lower limb (when unbraced) very like yours!!...not as reflexed but preety like that from you mate!!
It also returns to shape after have been shoot in for several times, in a similar way that you´ve descrived before.
Thanks for share Mark!!
Cheers...
Asier.
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Thank you guys. It's for sure that I will be keeping my eyes open for another suitable stave of this species of wood
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wow that is gorgeaus
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Thanks David
Looks like my site is down though. I'll just upload the pictures here
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Hi, new to this site, found it while googling for hawthorn bows and I'm glad I did. that's a very nice bow Marc.
I've just cropped a couple of staves of hawthorn. one had been pushed over by beef so I had the best piece over where it bifurcated. it's about 6 inch thick and bent like a recurve, should make iteresting tiller work. got another branch yesterday around 4" thick, straight as a die and has a lot of forward set.
you may think it difficult to find good hawthorn your side of the atlantic but most of ours is cut into farily low hedges. I only managed to stumble on the last piece while looking for a good holly tree.
anyway, this made interesting reading for me. thanks again.
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Nice as usual Marc. I may see if I have hawthorn in the midsouth. Not one I'm familiar with. You handled the asym reflex admirably. High hassle factor in my experience, but that can be the fun of it sometimes.
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Here's a hawthorne bow I made last a couple months ago. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,7884.0.html
It seems to be great bow wood. One of the better white woods for sure.
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Very nicely done Mark. I love seeing people take on challenges to see what is possible especially with wood that is not the norm. That has some real nice character and you did great on the tiller and string alignment. Congratulations, Keenan
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Very nice bow Marc. When I show someone one of my bows I never brace it. I'm surrounded by compound shooters and alot of them draw 29 or 30 inches. I tiller all mine to 28 and am too nervous about them. Also, one time when a guy I work with handed his buddy his vintage Bear recurve that he hunts with all the time, the dude drew it right back and dry fired it. I thought my work buddy was gonna have a stroke. The guy that did it was a bow hunter and should have known better, now I know better to keep the string off when showing my off my work.
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Brothers, listen to this!---
I've learned to NEVER hand a strung bow to anyone that I don't KNOW can handle it properly. On More than one occasion, I've done it and the first thing they do is pull it back and like some have said here--dry fire it. But that's not even the best part.
I've ALSO learned to never hand ANY of my bows (STRUNG OR NOT) to anyone that I don't KNOW can handle it properly. I have handed UNSTRUNG bows to people before thinking surely to God they won't try to pull back a limp string that is just loosely wrapped around the wood--AND THEY DID!!! This has happened more than once and I said NO MORE.
I've actually known ADULTS SOOOOOO uneducated about bows that they think a bow functions by the string stretching!!!!! So they just grab it and pull on it no matter where it is or if it's strung or not. My ex-wife was such a dumb $#@&! that she actually made fun of me when I first started making bows because according to her I was doing it wrong. She claimed that the wood shouldn't bend and that I needed to find a string that stretched more because how can it fire an arrow if the string doesn't stretch. When I tried to educate her SHE ACTUALLY ARGUED WITH ME. Of course the moron is long gone but it just goes to warn you, there are some super idiots out there. I won't be handing my bow to anyone unless I am for sure they know what's going on.
~~Papa Matt
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Very nice bow makes me want to grab up a snakey piece of something or other.
Ronnie
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Thanks guys. I built this bow last year so I didn't expect it to surface again.
I've had people pick uip my bows and not even bother with the string. They just grab the limbs and yank on them and it doesn't matter if it's backwards or not. My wife brought her little Yew bow I made her a couple years ago to a pow wow and this guy grabbed it and started to bend it backwards without even bothering to ask her if he could touch it. She doesn't bring her bow to events anymore
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Man that makes me mad. I'd of let that guy know right there in front of everybody that he was a dumb%$#!.
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This excellent bow was posted much earlier than I registered here. What to say except: great!!!
One question for Marc: sometimes I work with similar character bows like this one. On unbraced pic this bow has one limb highly reflexed than other. That difference is less visible on brace and full draw. Do you often do like this Marc? Are both limbs equaly strained? I always got problems understanding working of different limbs and bows like this are such a treasure for learning skillfull tillering.
Best regards Marc!
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Yup, nice bow. I particulary like the diagonal symmetry of the handle, V stylish.
We have tons of Hawthorn in the Uk, I've only tried it once, it seems nice wood but the bit I had was full of weird grain swirls and twist (ended up in the corner of shame :-[). They seem to grow with trunks like a series of columns stuck together. I shall keep my eye out for a smaller diameter piece and have another go.
In most of my full draw pics, there's one in the background :).
It's always a dilemma letting people try your bows, being a bit of a show off I generally let people have a go, but only ever with my arrows to avoid overdraw.
I once had a chap take a recurve laminated crossbow prod and start bending it over his knee the wrong way... I nearly exploded, never mind the bow.
On 'have a go days' if there is someone who really has the 'feel' I'll let 'em have a go with one of my primitives so they can feel a real bow rather than the tired old low poundage club longbows. I've been lucky so far and not had any damage, but a couple of target archers have forgotten to hold on >:(.
Del
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Dang nice like em character bows
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I agree with your appraisal of Hawthorne as bow wood. I've made two bows from Hawthorn, both were very nice, despite propeller twists and other "character" issues. The first was 60# at 28" and the second was 48# at 28". In some ways, it seems to act like Serviceberry. I also use the stuff for walking sticks and, axe handles and makeshift hammers. It's tough and a pain in the rear to split (not to mention harvest. The thorns will get stuck in my skin and fester.)
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Good job, love the character in that one.
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It's been awhile since this thread.
When I tiller a bow I not only tiller by limb strain but by how it feels in my hand as I draw it.
Hawthorne reacts quite well to heat-treating
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This is one more of your great bows Marc- it is good to be mentioned as example of excellent and skillfull work, as always. Thank you for answering.
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Hi Marc,
I'm working on a stave right now that has some similar character to this one. Could you tell me a little about your method for doing the thickness tapering? I would really appreciate it!