Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: lebhuntfish on November 08, 2014, 08:33:54 pm

Title: Black locust?
Post by: lebhuntfish on November 08, 2014, 08:33:54 pm
Went to check some trail camera's today. And talked to the lady that owns the land I hunt on. She asked me if I could use a couple black locust trees that was in the edge of her yard. I said sure, so she showed them to me. They are about 3" across, lots of thorns of course, and straight enough to work with.

My question is, do you think k they are big enough around? If so should I dry them whole? Could I split them, probably for a bendy or glue on handle?
She wants them cut out and I told her I would take them if I could use them. What's your thoughts or reservations? Thanks, Patrick
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: Badly Bent on November 08, 2014, 09:49:15 pm
Are the thorns on the trunk Patrick? If so that would be honey locust. Either way at only 3" diameter you would be making a sapwood backed bow, likely very little heartwood in there. I haven't worked with honey locust and with black locust I have only done heartwood backed selfbows, although others have done sapwood backs. Any small diameter staves that I cut I seal the ends and leave in the round for a few weeks or more then split in half. I have a couple small diameter BL staves seasoning now that I will eventually try a sapwood backed bow from. You may want to try that.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: lebhuntfish on November 08, 2014, 10:12:16 pm
Yes sir, the thorns are all really way down the tree. All the way round the ground. So that would make it honey locust.

With a sapwood backed bow. Should I treat it like white wood? The back being just under the bark? Also would they make a good sinew backed bow?  Thanks, Patrick
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: PatM on November 08, 2014, 10:37:42 pm
Are you sure black locust won't have thorns on the smaller trunks? Ours does up here although that's probably in a sucker scenario where the trunks aren't initially sure if they are a branch or a tree. The thorns seem to get pushed out by the bark and are just sitting on the surface with no real anchor to the trunk.
 The two species really don't resemble each other  much, nor are they related closely.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: loefflerchuck on November 08, 2014, 11:03:05 pm
Young black locust has thorns on the trunk. It's pretty east to tell them apart from the leaves and pods. Don't let them go to waist. I have a little locust tree bow. Took off a couple rings of sap then left the rest. So far it shoots fine. Worst case is you have some fine light weight bows.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: loefflerchuck on November 08, 2014, 11:05:42 pm
And yes sinew should take the tension
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: DavidV on November 09, 2014, 12:20:20 am
Treat it like a white wood and just strip off the bark, don't mine the pin knots from the thorns, they don't go too deep. Honestly though, not a fan of honey locust at all. My bow took a bunch of set.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: Webradbury on November 09, 2014, 07:58:02 am
The black locust I have seen has thorns on the saplings. There is a small stand on the edge of a city cemetery where I work. I got permission to cut a couple of the trees that have blown over and it is going to be a challenge getting to them through all of the small trees. They are like razor wire!  I'll try to post a pic today to see if they are what you are referring to.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 09, 2014, 08:46:51 am
I cut my bow making teeth  on BL. My first was made from a 2 inch sapling. 3 inches will be fine. BL, white flowers in spring,  is a heartwood which functions best with a heartwood back.

If there is not enough heartwood, then  chase a ring and get as close as you can to it.

Will be fine.

Jawge
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: huisme on November 09, 2014, 11:53:49 am
I had a 40# molle I made from a sapling about that size. Yes the sapling had thorns down the trunk, and yes I split it and the bow has a bendy handle. Made a good gift, shot well, lots of crown but locust can take it ;)
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: lebhuntfish on November 09, 2014, 03:19:02 pm
Thanks fellas! I'll post a picture of it when I get it cut.  It will probably be a week or so. Patrick
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: oscar3b on November 10, 2014, 10:59:10 am
I have a ton of black locust around my house and anything that small has thorns all the way down it.  I haven't tried anything that didn't have massive knots and end up breaking, but it took a lot more stain than any wood should have too before it broke so I don't have a bad opinion of it.  I wouldn't back it with anything seeing as it is such a tension heavy wood.  If she is going to cut it anyway I say go for it.  It can't hurt to try it. 
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: Webradbury on November 10, 2014, 07:47:19 pm
I cut a 5-6" stave this afternoon, myself. I Think the two halves will make two good bows if I don't mess them up. I can't wait to start on a bow. I haven't built one yet but you have to start somewhere.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: Jim Davis on November 10, 2014, 08:32:17 pm
Just to make sure we're not barking  up the wrong tree, this is black locust bark.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDtyBeMoIgXRUB-kT5zW5FBOwRcR08UPlMMLhtzP-iN_3fWQ9S)

This is honey locust bark. The thorns branch.  Black locust thorns are single spikes.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmhmg3cZZLEspeTGqygG1LcLup1KHlxyFv3qCehdZEUfh2KkgW)

Jim Davis
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: lebhuntfish on November 10, 2014, 08:42:21 pm
The one I'm going to cut looks like the bottom picture Jim. Patrick
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: duke3192 on November 10, 2014, 09:01:25 pm
I've worked both, but had more satisfaction with the honey locust, they ended up at about 2" and tapering to 1/2" at tip, came in at 50-60 lbs draw weight at 66" ntn, limbs ended up thinner tan a lot of osage that I've worked. The honey locust that I had came from Texas.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: Jim Davis on November 10, 2014, 09:03:45 pm
At least you know what you are working with now. The numbers in the strength data are not as good as black locust. Some who think they have made bows of one or the other may have been misinformed.

At any rate, we make bows of what comes our way, right?

Jim
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: Bullitt on November 11, 2014, 09:20:31 pm
Black locust is great!

Now as far as what you have, 3"dia. is a young tree or sapling.
The bark of a young tree is not like the same as the pics Jim posted.

Young b.l. does have small thorns, similar to rose bushes.
Unlike, thorn clusters of honey locust!

Go for it!
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: lebhuntfish on November 11, 2014, 09:42:32 pm
Thanks Bullitt, this stuff definitely has the thorn clusters! Patrick
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: wizardgoat on November 11, 2014, 09:59:48 pm
I don't mean to jack this thread. Can black locust be sped dry like a white wood, or should I treat it like Osage or yew. My BL rough outs seem like they'll never stop losing weight, I live in a wet climate though
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: huisme on November 11, 2014, 11:14:30 pm
Goat, I made most of my bows in and will go going back to Washington, and I would t try to get my locust dry in less than a month but you certainly don't need to wait a year. One of my last bows in Washington went from tree to molle in two months and still shoots great.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: Springbuck on November 12, 2014, 05:13:39 pm
The one I'm going to cut looks like the bottom picture Jim. Patrick

In that case treat it just like good quality white wood.
Title: Re: Black locust?
Post by: lebhuntfish on November 12, 2014, 09:31:19 pm
Thanks springbuck! Patrick