Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: PK on January 10, 2008, 10:08:49 pm

Title: Spining again
Post by: PK on January 10, 2008, 10:08:49 pm
am I correct to say "Yes Spining Arrows to fit the Bow, Arrows need to be a specific spine weight for the bow being used.Lets say if a bow is 40 pounds at 28" the Arrow Spine or shaft would need to be around 40 pound and 28 to 30 inches in leangth, Approx,meaning that the arrow has to have enough flex in it to curve around the bow when shot.
Since the bow string is centered in the middle of the bow and most bows have an arrow rest that does not reach full center, the string when released does not follow a straight path, thus the Arrow and String are Paradoxing like a wave in motion.
When the Arrow/string reaches its release point, the Arrow is not straight and is in a
flexing motion until it reaches it's Target". I tried to explain this to a person I gave a bow and some arrows to, so I would Like to correct myself if i have given mistaken Information, Because I am still hard to understand at times,LOL, Thanks PK
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: 1/2primitive on January 10, 2008, 10:32:00 pm
Yep, sounds like you've got it.
Only one thing, when the string is released, the string doesn't travel in a wave motion, the arrow does, to curve around the handle.
    Sean
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: PK on January 11, 2008, 01:14:10 am
Yep, sounds like you've got it.
Only one thing, when the string is released, the string doesn't travel in a wave motion, the arrow does, to curve around the handle.
    Sean
Thanks I like the reasurance But, my understanding was when using fingers to draw and release the string drifts to the left  off my fingers then back to the right. which in turn makes the arrow bend around the bow? This is complicated stuff i'm dealing with but I need to take yer truths serious, since i'm getting older faster or was it younger slower.
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Kegan on January 11, 2008, 07:32:56 pm
The string pushes the arrow straight into the bow. The forces it to bend around the bow, but you should have it only bend so much. You want it to go pretty straight toward the target (it won't be perfecly straight, but pretty darn close). The string is simply going around your finger- it will be pulled straight by your bow.

Arrow weight simply determines how far it will shoot and how hard it will hit. It has less to do with the actual paradox.
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Glenn R. on January 11, 2008, 08:26:46 pm
Also , depending on the distance, the arrow does stop oscillating before reaching the target--properties of both spine and fletching achieve this. Around 1984 I watched a a series of tapes, high speed photography, put out by Easton arrow Co. of an arrow coming off the bow, both centershot and non centershot models using fingers and release aids. Yes--a bad finger release can effect the string and arrow motion. The arrow absolutely looks like a piece of limp spagetti as it comes off the bow. What was more scary is high speed photography of the modern compound--looks as though the cable would jump off the whheels as the limbs looked loose enough to fall out of the limb pockets--then snapped back to a terriffic amount of force---exactly why the TBB says a string will break after letting go and it hits brace position----believe it :)     
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: PK on January 12, 2008, 02:01:51 am
See I said it was complicated but ,Your information is greatly appreciated, really your great instructors and learners. :'(
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: PK on January 12, 2008, 02:34:25 am
Also , depending on the distance, the arrow does stop oscillating before reaching the target--properties of both spine and fletching achieve this. Around 1984 I watched a a series of tapes, high speed photography, put out by Easton arrow Co. of an arrow coming off the bow, both centershot and non centershot models using fingers and release aids. Yes--a bad finger release can effect the string and arrow motion. The arrow absolutely looks like a piece of limp spagetti as it comes off the bow. What was more scary is high speed photography of the modern compound--looks as though the cable would jump off the whheels as the limbs looked loose enough to fall out of the limb pockets--then snapped back to a terriffic amount of force---exactly why the TBB says a string will break after letting go and it hits brace position----believe it :)     
Very informative, thats why I like to make traditional bows and strings, I only broke one bow because I did not know about grain tracing, I broke one string actually it came unraveled then broke my bow, Bonked me on the forhead too. I only broke 3 bows on purpose because I knew that they would eventually break because of the wood  characteristics. I learned from great Boyer's like the Ones on this here Forum and have not Broken a Bow since. :)Still learnin.
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Justin Snyder on January 12, 2008, 11:33:40 am
See I said it was complicated but ,Your information is greatly appreciated, really your great instructors and learners. :'(
Bows are very simple compared to arrows.  Lots of people can make great bows, but great arrows might be a different story. Justin
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: PK on January 12, 2008, 02:41:34 pm
See I said it was complicated but ,Your information is greatly appreciated, really your great instructors and learners. :'(
Bows are very simple compared to arrows.  Lots of people can make great bows, but great arrows might be a different story. Justin
No doubt about that Buddy. :)
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Kegan on January 12, 2008, 04:58:36 pm
I definately believe there should be a "Traditional Arrow Builder's Bible" written some day :).
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Justin Snyder on January 12, 2008, 05:33:49 pm
I definately believe there should be a "Traditional Arrow Builder's Bible" written some day :).
TBB has a section dedicated to arrows, but I agree there could be more info than that. Justin
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Pat B on January 12, 2008, 06:54:41 pm
The early issues of PA had a series by Ken Wee(I believe) about building primitive arrows. Lots of good stuff in all those old issues. ;D    Pat
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Kegan on January 12, 2008, 07:47:10 pm
I think producing good, solid primitive arrows deserves it's own volume ;).
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Glenn R. on January 12, 2008, 08:08:02 pm
PK, "bonked ya in the head?", I'll bet that was probably a shock. Going back to my wheely days I had a 80# compound blow apart in the handle when I let go of the spring--imagine my surprise, holding my arm extended (bow arm) and no bow in sight--one piece flew over my shoulder, the other half ripped off the wrist sling and went under and behind me ???

Anyway, back to primitive---I shoot a lot of hazel shoot arrows--ever think about how strong they are because of the circular growth rings / no grain run-out? I also don't see a large spine difference on the spinetester when turning them as you do on a split grained arrow. I also like heavy arrows. Kinda got scared off from river cane--had one explode (implode?) coming off my longbow. Don't know if this was a rare occurence or not? 60#bow?
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: PK on January 13, 2008, 12:50:01 am
I definately believe there should be a "Traditional Arrow Builder's Bible" written some day :).
TBB has a section dedicated to arrows, but I agree there could be more info than that. Justin
Hey, Ive been reading that but I still Like asking you all questions your easyier to understand.
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Hillbilly on January 13, 2008, 09:39:54 am
Quote
Kinda got scared off from river cane--had one explode (implode?) coming off my longbow. Don't know if this was a rare occurence or not? 60#bow?

That's very odd. Cane is by far the strongest arrow material I have ever used, bar none. Cane seems to me several times stronger than any wooden shaft. The only materials coming close to it in strength are hardwood shoots like sourwood, hazel, etc. I have never broken a cane arrow, even with direct hits on rocks and trees, etc. That's one of the main reasons I won't shoot cedar, just too durn weak and flimsy. Do you wrap your arrows in front of the nock? I've had a couple wooden ones split on release over the years until I started wrapping them.
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Pat B on January 13, 2008, 12:03:40 pm
I have never had a cane arrow break on release or on impact. I have noticed while making cane a that there was small hole at a node that was made by a small worm. These holes weren't obvious to me while collecting the canes. I think that by going through the process of straightening  cane shafts and making the arrows puts enough stress on the cane, in most cases, where any weakness will manifest itself.
   Why did your cane arrow blow? Did you investigate what the problem was with that cane arrow to make it blow?   Pat
Title: Re: Spining again
Post by: Glenn R. on January 13, 2008, 02:15:16 pm
I'm really not sure. I made about 6 cane arrows and that was the only one I had trouble with. Maybe it was underspined? I t was the smaller in dia. and I noticed a large changed in dia in one of the step downs/ on opposite sides of the node.  I did check it on the spine tester before shooting but realize this material will not probably give an accurate reading like cedar shafts.? The cane was given to me by a friend who lives down in Southern Illinois--but I remember thinking it was kinda small dia stuff. What is the avereage dia. of the cane you guys are using?  I wrap all of my primitive shafts behind the nock---the canes I even wrapped where the hardwood footed foreshaft glued in. Of all the shaft material I've worked with I would have to say the cane was the easiest to heat and straighten and they stayed straight.