Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: edwinfarr on September 21, 2014, 08:41:57 pm

Title: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: edwinfarr on September 21, 2014, 08:41:57 pm
I just got into archery and building bows a few months ago and this is my second project (first was a maple board bow that broke while tillering  :().

I got a 18" diameter 6' long hickory log from a friend and split it into staves.  It had cross grain and was very hard to get to split as the grains crossed between the pieces even when splitting.  I want to make a sapwood backed bow out of them but cannot find any grains in the sapwood.  I took off the bark and cambium layer currently.  But when I sand, shave or otherwise take it down lower, the wood has no discernable rings to chase.  Does anyone know what kind of hickory this is and if it is suitable to make a backless bow or is it likely to splinter and therefore need a backing? 

In the photos you can see that the grain (for lack of a better word) grows in dashed lines not solid growth rings.  Like it grows like condensation on a soda can each year so there is no way to tell how old the tree is either. 

Thanks for any advice!

Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: wizardgoat on September 21, 2014, 09:05:02 pm
Underneath the bark and cambium is the back of your bow.
Pretty hard to tell what kind of hickory it is as is, but I'm pretty sure all hickories will make a good bow. Work it down to floor tiller, seal the back and ends, strap it to a board and let it sit for a while
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: edwinfarr on September 21, 2014, 09:07:28 pm
Would that be to age it and see where it bends?  It is currently at 15% moisture content.  My concern is that if I violate the back sapwood ring (since I cannot see them I am assuming I have done so) is the odd ring/grain pattern likely to cause a splinter or break with no backing or would it be ok to leave the bow unbacked? 

Thanks again.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: edwinfarr on September 21, 2014, 09:10:23 pm
Here are more pics.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: PatM on September 21, 2014, 09:33:49 pm
Those are not "grains". It would appear that you have Oak rather than hickory.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Bob Barnes on September 21, 2014, 09:56:22 pm
I agree that it's oak...if you had a leaf we could tell what kind...
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Drewster on September 21, 2014, 10:58:22 pm
Yep, sure looks like oak to me based on these pics.  The "dashed" lines are indicative of oak.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Joec123able on September 21, 2014, 11:07:49 pm
Yep oak not hickory
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: PatM on September 21, 2014, 11:22:20 pm
That's the trouble with most people cutting wood for you. Trees are either "pine trees" if coniferous and either ""Hickory"  or "Oak" if hard wood. If they are exceptionally hard they are "Ironwood".
 If while splitting a Hickory, Oak or Ironwood an old sap spile is found buried in the wood, it then becomes Maple.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Joec123able on September 21, 2014, 11:49:55 pm
That's the trouble with most people cutting wood for you. Trees are either "pine trees" if coniferous and either ""Hickory"  or "Oak" if hard wood. If they are exceptionally hard they are "Ironwood".
 If while splitting a Hickory, Oak or Ironwood an old sap spile is found buried in the wood, it then becomes Maple.

Lmao you're so right
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2014, 12:01:10 am
White oak.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: DarkSoul on September 22, 2014, 06:28:30 am
Yup, that's an oak. It's still a good bow wood, so no worries :)
Remove the bark and cambium to reveal the back of the bow. No need to remove the sapwood or anything. We'll need a pic of the end grain to point out the individual annular growth rings.
You can shape the bow a bit now, but be sure that the wood has fully dried before you start tillering the bow.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: edwinfarr on September 22, 2014, 08:38:40 am
Thanks for all the great info!

Here are pics of the end cuts.  There are no visible growth rings.  I can see the heatwood vs sapwood but no definite rings.  I think the early and late growth are interspersed/woven throughout which would explain what I am seeing. 

Also, when splitting, the logs were very fibrous between staves and I had to use a saw to cut them apart due to the stringers of wood that crossed the main grain. 

Here are more pics of this piece as well as another that the end grains (or lack of) can be seen in better detail.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2014, 08:51:35 am
How long has that tree been down and where has the stave been stored since?
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: blackhawk on September 22, 2014, 09:10:08 am
I see growth rings just fine.... I think your confusing the terms "grain"and "rings"
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: PatM on September 22, 2014, 09:49:56 am
The growth rings are clearly visible. Do a fresh cut and you will get a better idea what you're looking for. The early  and late growth are never woven or interspersed together. They would have to time travel to do that.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: edwinfarr on September 22, 2014, 09:51:11 am
Tree was knocked down in a storm in February 2014.  It laid on the ground in whole form untill July 2014 where it was cut into a 7' log and then chain sawed length wise in half.  I got it then, split it into staves, and have had it stacked with air between each stave under my deck in an area that has some water when it rains but is otherwise, dry and open-air.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: blackhawk on September 22, 2014, 10:22:29 am
If it laid on the ground out in the elements that long chances are good its firewood
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2014, 10:33:26 am
My thoughts, Chris. White oak, like other whitewoods don't take long on the ground to be infected by fungi. 
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: edwinfarr on September 22, 2014, 10:42:10 am
Hello Pat,

So, if it is infected by fungi, it is not good for building a bow?  How can I tell if it is infected with fungi?
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2014, 10:50:44 am
If it laid on the ground as long as it did you can assume fungi has gotten n. To what degree is unknown until you get inside. Sometimes fungi will discolor the wood but not always. You could cut out a piece of the wood, give it a few days to dry and do a bend test. 
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: PatM on September 22, 2014, 11:33:10 am
Isn't White Oak known for decay resistance? I remember Thimo made a bow out of a White Oak slat that looked like it came from the Mary Rose.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2014, 12:17:34 pm
The heartwood is more rot resistant than the sapwood but for me it I not worth the effort.
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: edwinfarr on September 22, 2014, 12:19:14 pm
I seem to remember that it was not laying on the ground but elevated about a foot (it did not fall totally and leaned on another tree or log).
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: Blaflair2 on September 22, 2014, 01:41:52 pm
I see rings as well. A but load of em. Looks like it grew slow
Title: Re: What kind of Hickory is this?
Post by: H Rhodes on September 22, 2014, 08:24:51 pm
Isn't White Oak known for decay resistance? I remember Thimo made a bow out of a White Oak slat that looked like it came from the Mary Rose.
It handles moisture well, so much so that old time boat builders would seek out a good white oak with just the right curve to a limb to make the keel beam of wooden boats.  It doesn't like the fungi and organisms in the ground though - it will rot quick as any other white wood.  Fungi give staves all sorts of strange behavior - not the least of which is blowing apart when everything else looks great.  Don't ask me how I know this - it brings back bad memories.
Pat gave the best idea with doing a bend test with a piece of it.