Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Horn Bows => Topic started by: james parker on September 02, 2014, 05:15:39 pm

Title: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: james parker on September 02, 2014, 05:15:39 pm
ok PA members, we now have a new horn bow discussion area,
please, only post and talk about true composite horn bows, that way we can stay on the true topics.
take a few minutes to post what you are in the process of, and finished bows. any and all stages of manufacture are open to debate and discussion, im also looking for pics of the bow attempts that were failures..
I will be posting some of my successes and failure also.
so- lets see what is out there :)..........James
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: mullet on September 02, 2014, 05:36:39 pm
As soon as I get the set of horns I have ground down and straightened, I'll be starting a plains style bow.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: ajbruggink on September 02, 2014, 08:36:18 pm
Its my planned project for this winter, have to build more experience with the wooden ones first. I can find the materials just short on experience.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Weylin on September 03, 2014, 12:26:18 am
Come on, people! quit slackin'. The Horn Bow forum has been up for a day now. Where are everyone's new horn bow pictures?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: james parker on September 03, 2014, 01:07:22 am
im interested to see the broke ones/id like to compare  breaks, delams,
differences in short and long term cure times,    anyone with info
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: bubby on September 03, 2014, 01:08:43 am
I've got this one hanging in the rafters curing, and waiting for me to get the time to finish it up(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/my%20horn%20bow/CAM00707_zpsfmamm7aa.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/my%20horn%20bow/CAM00707_zpsfmamm7aa.jpg.html)
(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/my%20horn%20bow/CAM00610_zpsoshyroeo.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/my%20horn%20bow/CAM00610_zpsoshyroeo.jpg.html)
(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/my%20horn%20bow/CAM00604_zpszytqyhhv.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/my%20horn%20bow/CAM00604_zpszytqyhhv.jpg.html)
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: mikekeswick on September 03, 2014, 04:28:35 am
Bubby - give it way more reflex! Don't doubt the materials...they can easily take more. You probably want the tips about 10 inches apart.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: mikekeswick on September 03, 2014, 04:34:52 am
I've got two Turkish flight bows 'in the works' one is going to be heavy (100# +) and the other hopefully around 70# given the thicknesses. I have high hopes for these....
I also have two of my own design which are meant to be better suited to a lighter draw weight than the Turkish bows. The first of these bows I made is around 55#@26 (could be drawn to 28) and at this draw-length it shoots my best flight arrows consistently over 350yds. The two new ones both have much lighter tips and slightly tweaked limb cross sections which I hope will give more efficiency....and longer shots  ;D
They should all be ready for next years flight shoot at the salt flats.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Easternarcher on September 03, 2014, 09:58:05 am
I've got one in the works, but I've been sidelined all summer with issues at the house.
Interesting build as I've never done one before.
No pics yet.
While I was adding reflex one limb developed a crack in the horn near the fade...I ground it down and plan on glueing in a patch of new horn.
The mistake I made was putting the butt end of the horns at the grip, and the dips and rough texture there caused the crack.  ::) but I didn't think I had enough width at the narrow end to cover the core. Lesson learned.
So it is resting with 3 layers of sinew (which really went well) and that's another first for me...Never used sinew or hide glue before-ever. When I get back into my house, I'll have to repair and tiller it out. It may end up just a wallhanger as it is commissioned by a collector, not an archer. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Olanigw (Pekane) on September 03, 2014, 10:28:03 am
I am rabidly researching to (eventually) make myself a korean bow

Planning on maple core, cherry siyas, cow horn belly, and birch bark backing.

Reflexed like this:
(http://c0728562.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/MI25189_HR.jpg)
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Parnell on September 03, 2014, 11:48:22 am
Hmm, maybe this will make me get off my butt with my project.  I should start a thread...
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: james parker on September 03, 2014, 06:10:35 pm
bubby,mike is correct, you could have so much more of a bow if you induce more reflex into the limbs.heating the limbs and pulling the tip inward ,then letting season in that position will add greatly to thespeed

parnell are you sitting on your hands, would love to see what you have got going

pekane, I have made several of the Korean style,, those have gave me the most gratification to build, I had 4 fail, before the first success,, I tried alternative materials for the core,, just wont work,, at least for me,, the tried and true  bamboo core is best suited for the Korean bow,, cant fix something that aint broke,,belive me I have tried. but that's what we are here for ,,to learn... im no expert, but i do have substantial experience,at lots of failures when it comes to the horn bows,,it has come at a great cost$$.

so I think you should do what makes you happy ,because that what we are all doing
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: james parker on September 03, 2014, 06:14:06 pm
all most forgot! hey mike how bout hurrying up and post those bows,, im eager to se them
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: bubby on September 03, 2014, 06:44:48 pm
Alright, quit twisting my arm already, I'll do like James said and get some more reflex in this baby
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Parnell on September 04, 2014, 09:51:58 am
I have been sitting on my hands, James.  Got a new workshop going in this upcoming week.  That would be a very cool project to pick back up in there. 
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: simson on September 04, 2014, 01:08:44 pm
I'm currently working on an indian hornbow (cow horn, spliced). Will be 38" ntn. I have three layers sinew on it. The tips moved already a great distance and induced a wild reflex, looks almost like part of a circle.

 Unfotunately I got a bit of twist and one limb needs moore sinew (is a bit weaker than the other).
So I'm interested in how do you guys work out the twist? With gentle heatfrom heatgun?

Oh, and I really appriciate this new subforum!!!!
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on September 04, 2014, 02:41:52 pm
I finished this Magyar a few weeks ago, my son has no chance to draw it....140 cm tip to tip, 90+#
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on September 04, 2014, 02:59:19 pm
and a few more projects are on the way.......
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: james parker on September 04, 2014, 04:36:40 pm
Tc,, congrats!! that's a fine  example of the Magyar bow,, how about some full draw pics?



simson,, can you post some pics of the bow,, it will be much easier to advise after viewing them..
                                             
                                                              james
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on September 05, 2014, 05:43:42 pm
Thanks James. I left the bow strung for a day and a half to make drawing easier.....still it is not that easy :o
Here we go.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: swamp yeti on September 05, 2014, 06:28:24 pm
That's nice TC.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: swamp yeti on September 07, 2014, 12:11:01 pm
I thought  would chime in.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on December 06, 2014, 06:59:21 pm
This is my new magyar still in seasoning state. Sorry for the poor quality, I shooted it by my cellphone...
 http://youtu.be/gC1o8FODpyE
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: mikekeswick on December 08, 2014, 04:43:46 am
Tc that looks to be very thick and wide horn  :) Good find!
The bow looks very nice so far.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on December 08, 2014, 11:31:17 am
Thanks Mike, it is a bit tricky, the core is wider than the horn, I filled up the gap with sinew. Actually this pair of horn had the lowest quality from the band I had...
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: swamp monkey on December 13, 2014, 05:38:21 pm
I made a couple of bison horn bows, both with four sections of bison horn.  See below.  Indian Guy was very helpful on that project.  One was left with sinew back while the other was covered with a snake skin.  (yeah I know that is the wrong arrow for that bow.  it was all I had at the time. :-[ )

Now, I want to make a five section bison horn bow so it can be longer than 36 inches.  Then I want to try something Asian.  Any suggestions on one a beginner should look at for this first Asian horn bow? i have Korpowizc's book.   After reviewing some threads on this section Magyar seems to be popular.  Why is that?
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on December 25, 2014, 07:09:11 pm
Some progress....
http://youtu.be/GGKjP_nOhIM
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: mullet on December 25, 2014, 10:09:50 pm
Tc, that is coming along real nice. I like the contrast between the bone plates and the Buff' horn.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: DC on December 26, 2014, 01:29:28 pm
That's gorgeous! A lot of work and time. I've noticed that these horn bows always have the little piece of bone in the handle between the ends of the horn. Why is that there? Why not butt the horn pieces together?
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on December 26, 2014, 02:21:28 pm
1. It is easier. ;) (you do not have to be so precise during horn gluing)
2. It is a sort of decoration as well...
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: DC on December 27, 2014, 03:20:27 pm
Thank you
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: duke3192 on December 27, 2014, 08:47:02 pm
Also as the form reflexs when the sinew is drying the horn pieces develop gaps that need to be filled.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on December 28, 2014, 05:00:24 am
Well, not exactly O:). That part of the bow does not move neither during seasoning nor shooting. Besides this little bone (the Turkish name is celik) is glued before seasoning so if the horns moved there, the bow would develop a gap with the celik glued in place....
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: duke3192 on December 28, 2014, 07:33:51 pm
Thank you Tc, I got my information from a video on composite bow building, I will just have try and see what happens with different types of composites.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Lukasz Nawalny on December 30, 2014, 10:29:12 am
I have celik theory and I check it in practice. I glue celik after tillering. When we have bows glued in big reflex horns on belly have tendency to little movements in tillering proces. When we dont have space between horns it make big tear away forces in horn/wood gluing, so I have seen a lot of delaminations in handle area. When I glue bow in C reflex I have always space between horns and I glue celik last
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on December 30, 2014, 04:37:32 pm
Different thoughts, different ways, one common goal: working hornbow :D
I like your bows Lukasz, especially the schythians.... It is good to see you here!
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Parnell on January 05, 2015, 04:17:10 pm
I've been grilling the Karpowicz book for about a month and feel like I'm about ready to start a Turkish bow.

Anybody want to weigh in on what core wood to start with and type?  I've found hard maple boards from a dealer locally but he unsure of how they have been dried.  In the reading I'm still questioning the grain orientation for a board with the sal and siyah (kasan).  Am I looking to reduce a stave to my wanted dimensions with the bark side of the stave "towards the belly"? 

I'm curious about trying to dig up a pipe clean ironwood or hard maple stave from members that is relatively green and allowing for several months of curing on a form.


Anybody want to weight in on "best choice" for first timers core components?

Thanks,

Stephen
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: RBLusthaus on January 05, 2015, 06:15:34 pm
I am in the same boat as you, and after reading the book now what seems like 20 times, I have begun putting together a core.  I am using hard maple and am staying with the books advice - - bark side is the belly.  I tried bending the blanks when they were 3/4 in thick to no avail.  I have had some success with them when they are 1/2 in thick, so I will add on a piece for the nocks later.  I have a few limbs drying as we speak.  I did get a little lifting of splinters during the bend at the kasan / tip apex, but the areas will be whittled down later so all seems good.  I am unsure if the wood I am using has been kiln or air dried, but based on my results, I assume kiln.  I got better results by soaking the blanks in a bucket for a few days before the bend.  No doubt the bend would be better and easier if the wood were green or air dried. 

Question for you - - when I add the piece on the tip to bring the nock area to sufficient thickness, do you think I should add it on the back or the belly side of the the tip?  I have my own thoughts (back side) and was wondering what yours are?  Other then the book stating that the extra could be added to fill out the tip at the nocks, it does not say on which side to add it, and since I was unable to bend the full 3/4 inch blank, I will be adding . . . .   Russ.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Parnell on January 05, 2015, 10:48:59 pm
From the reading and picture, my impression was also the back...

Thanks for your thought Russ.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: }|{opukc on January 16, 2015, 09:52:37 am
Hi..
Some of mine, also some future project.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,43271.0.html

(http://i40.tinypic.com/2j0kuax.jpg)



cheers George
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: }|{opukc on February 04, 2015, 04:28:23 am
authentic

(http://oi62.tinypic.com/2w1s0lh.jpg)

 G.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: james parker on February 04, 2015, 05:00:59 am
                                       
awesome :) :)









                                           







         
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Lukasz Nawalny on February 05, 2015, 06:48:50 pm
My new target bow, only 36 lb , 184 fps 9 gpp, range well over 200 meters. I was realy suprised this speed, birch core and sijah
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: mullet on February 05, 2015, 08:49:44 pm
Wow! I'd love to have one shooting that fast at such a light weight.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Lukasz Nawalny on March 06, 2015, 11:31:10 am
Turkish playground :)
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Tc on March 06, 2015, 02:17:13 pm
Ok, here is the newest....It is around 60#, almost finished tillering. Only sinew bandage and decoration left.
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: Aaron H on March 06, 2015, 06:56:12 pm
Great looking horn bow tc
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: stuckinthemud on October 24, 2016, 06:28:28 pm
Thought I'd bump this thread back to the top.  Time for an update? Come on, who's working on what at the moment; I'm working on Adam K's book with a view to starting a medium apple-wood-core Turkish target bow next spring........ :)
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: loon on October 25, 2016, 02:12:28 am
Ok, here is the newest....It is around 60#, almost finished tillering. Only sinew bandage and decoration left.
Is that Kurszan? Looks a little different shaped.. yeah, it has a tad of reflex on the handle unlike Kurszan. Very nice bow, very symmetrical!

I am still going to be working on Kurszan now hahaHa. Have to fix a blemish with glue, sinew wrap, maybe refinish, also fix twist... I guess it was my fault all along, I damaged it..

There's this hornbowyers facebook group. And ATARN facebook group. That's where most people making horn bows post these days... ..
Title: Re: who's working on composite horn bows?
Post by: High-Desert on October 25, 2016, 05:42:45 pm
Well, I've never made a horn bow, so I bought Adams book, and watched several YouTube videos about 10 times. I'm primarily interested in NA bow, but I didnt want to spend a bunch of money on sheep horn, so I am giving my first go on a NA horn bow with water buffalo horn......don't judge me.
I have the horn thinned and spliced together with an extra piece of horn for support. In the process of shredding sinew.

Eric