Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DanaM on January 07, 2008, 03:33:56 pm

Title: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on January 07, 2008, 03:33:56 pm
This is American elm stave I've had drying, had a naural deflex/reflex shape. I had to cut it down down to
61" due to some nasty grain on one end. Not sure where to go with it, should I try to take the bends out?
Use it the way it is? It does have some twist on one limb, I hope I can get out with the heat gun.
I'm not going to worry if I break it as I will still be learning something and this is pushing my comfort zone.
Hoping to get at least 50# @ 26" D style. May even sinew it which also would be a first. Any advice is welcome

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Title: Re: A new project
Post by: Justin Snyder on January 07, 2008, 03:45:59 pm
My advice is to take HIGH RESOLUTION PICTURES.   ;D Justin
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: DanaM on January 07, 2008, 04:02:15 pm
I would Justin but I can't upload them and thanks fer the help such useful advice ;)
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: richpierce on January 07, 2008, 04:32:15 pm
I'd get the twist out first, then fix the limb with the double curve until it is a simple deflex/reflex and then adjust things so the total amount of reflex at the tips is the same for both limbs.
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: Hillbilly on January 07, 2008, 05:11:00 pm
Which side is the back?
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: DanaM on January 07, 2008, 05:26:14 pm
Back is to left in first pic and up in second.
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: cowboy on January 07, 2008, 06:20:16 pm
Looks like it aught to be interesting :). I like steam now, at least for the big stuff.
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: DanaM on January 07, 2008, 06:38:41 pm
Thats what I'm thinking Paul this won't be easy and to think I have nice striaght staves to work with ;)
I have that osage from you also, itchin to get to it but figured I woould let it set in the hot box for awile.
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: koan on January 07, 2008, 07:56:53 pm
Wow Dana, I put mine on a form to get it to look like that...I would take care of the twist and tiller away. ;)...Brian
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: DanaM on January 07, 2008, 08:09:25 pm
Thanks brian I will trade it for a stright one ;) ;D
Its gonna test me but I'm in no hurry I have a worse one in the corner of shame
that I dig out every now and then. Keeps me humble ;D
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: venisonburger on January 07, 2008, 11:18:49 pm
Good luck on that one, I suppose theres not much a heat gun can't correct. One of these days I'm gonna try elm, don't have much on my land that I know of, mostly oak, maple, and ash. One of these years I'm gonna zig zag my way through the 80 acres and make note of where decent hardwood other than the above are located, such as hornbeam ect.
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: Ryano on January 07, 2008, 11:24:44 pm
Dana, I would floor tiller it as is and then put it on a reflex form to even out the reflexed part of the limbs with a heat gun. The more you get the stave bending before heat corrections the better it will bend, and take hold evenly.
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: Pappy on January 08, 2008, 06:21:25 am
What Ryan said,I have worked a lot of Osage like that but not elm,so ant sure how it
reacts.I would think it should be doable tho. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: DanaM on January 08, 2008, 07:00:47 am
Thanks guys, yea I want to do some more thinning and get the profile done, then get the twist after that.
Perhaps by then I will have a better notion of where to go.
VB there very few elm trees left anywhere in the UP, I cut this one at my in laws place in Delta county
they seem to be making a comeback over that way.
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: cowboy on January 08, 2008, 10:16:44 am
I'd be careful with that osage Dana - I just cut it this past summer so it's not all the cured out yet. If ya dry em too fast they'll check on ya - just a heads up :).
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 08, 2008, 10:23:19 am
If  those tips are reflexed I would go at it as is. That stave will teach you a lot about tillering character staves. Jawge
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: DanaM on February 03, 2008, 01:17:57 pm
Been working on this nasty old elm stave, I reduce its thickness and have been trying ti heat straighten it
after about 8 sessions with the heat gun I have it to this point. Ready to start tillering after it sets for awhile
to gain some moisture back. Tips still don't line up but are alot closer than when I started, it also still has some prop twist
but I think its good enuf at this point. If I get a bow out of it I will be pleased but not to worried as I have already learned
from it.

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Title: Re: A new project(new pics)
Post by: Justin Snyder on February 03, 2008, 02:06:44 pm
Looks like you need to line up the tips a little.  Making progress though, thats good. Justin
Title: Re: A new project(new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 03, 2008, 02:12:33 pm
ya their still out of whack but I think I will take her down some more first,
I think a little less wood and it will respond to the heat easier.
Title: Re: A new project(new pics)
Post by: Badger on February 03, 2008, 02:33:21 pm
That is going to make a very cool looking d bow when it's done Dana. Steve
Title: Re: A new project(new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 03, 2008, 02:47:25 pm
What I really like about building bows is when you get comfortable with one style there is always something new to challege ya ;D
Title: Re: A new project(new pics)
Post by: Pat B on February 03, 2008, 02:59:09 pm
Looks like a fun project Dana.  What you might do is heat areas along the bow to bring it in line instead of concentrating on the crooked areas. Like you said, I'd wait until a little more wood was off and maybe even at a low brace stage if it isn't too out of whack. Anyhoo, it will be fun!!!     Pat
Title: Re: A new project(new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 10, 2008, 02:00:43 pm
Well I finally got this cantankerous piece of elm to bend and shoot, it still needs some final tillering
and a few other finishing touches, I will probably cut the nocks off and go with pin nocks, final length will
be  about 59"  55#@26" Learned alot from this stave I tryied to force it into being the bow I saw,
it had a mind of its own and fought me too a nail, but after a little seet talking she came around. ;D
Its far from perfect string don't line up perfectly but it shoots. This is my first elm bow and its tough stuff!
I know I violated grain and theres a couple big dents in the back :o but so far its hoding together, BTW I cranked it back to 29"
just to see what would happen she held up and didn't take any extra set.

The last two pictures are the break wall on lake michigan, yankee will recogonize them.

And ya I know I have to get a bit more bend going in the outer limbs.

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Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: Pat B on February 10, 2008, 03:40:15 pm
SURFS UP!!! 8)    Dana looks like it is bending too much at the handle. Even though the handle is deflexed a bit more should come from farther out the limbs.     Pat.
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: sailordad on February 10, 2008, 03:44:04 pm
Hey Dana,
just curios as to what type of Elm that is. would that be dutch elm or chinese elm?
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 10, 2008, 04:09:53 pm
Sailordad its American elm,
Pat I know, I just tookher down to 58" NTN and ciut pin nocks in and am working on getting
a bit more bend in the mid to outer limbs, This was a crazy ass stave, Its got swirls in the grain, humps and whoopty do's
so I'm happy its still in one piece ;D
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 10, 2008, 06:05:24 pm
Cut her down to 57" NTN 55#@26", did a bit more scraping on the mid to outer limbs.
Might do a little more or just say good enuf.
Mass is 18.5 oz right now a bit heavy using Badgers calculations but seeing as its a character stave
not bad. Perhaps I will narrow the tips and lose another oz ;D

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Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: Dingleberry on February 10, 2008, 06:28:04 pm
Nice Job Dana, You seemed to have conqured that insolent stave. ;D  The area above your grip looks especially tricky, but the tiller looks pretty good from one of the side views so maybe its allright.  I don't know if I would fool with it anymore either.  Well Done!
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 10, 2008, 06:50:20 pm
Forgot to mention the only way this worked is the the top limb is a bit longer
thats what the bow told me anyhow. ;)
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: Jesse on February 10, 2008, 07:19:04 pm
Nice work Dana. I dont think Im ready for a stave that ugly :o
     Jesse
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 10, 2008, 07:25:29 pm
Jesse they build character ;) ;D
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: venisonburger on February 10, 2008, 07:53:24 pm
Nice work Dana, great photos too.
VB
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: Justin Snyder on February 10, 2008, 09:21:04 pm
Nice work Dana.  Justin
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: Wulamoc on February 10, 2008, 09:34:36 pm
Very nice, Dana!!!  I've seen that picture of the "surf" before - in person (Frankfort)!!!  Good work with the stick, man!
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: cowboy on February 10, 2008, 10:02:36 pm
That's lookin good Dana - appears to be bending a little too much in the handle but with all the tillering and all the character ya gotta call it good at some point :). That looks a little chilly out there on the lake..
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: jamie on February 10, 2008, 11:07:48 pm
looks like one of mine dana. nice job on it. elm has become one of my favorites.
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: El Destructo on February 11, 2008, 12:29:11 am
Yeah....I recognise the Break Wall...but it seems to be a bit chillier than the last time I seen it!!...nice job on a tricky stave....elm is a Biotch isn't it!!!...Looks like it may kick a Bit....but you did it....the last American Elm I bought...I ruined it trying to split it....never got no where near the Bow Stage!!!

Here are a few Pics from the Harbor in Marquette that my Dad sent me....Looks like Gitche Gumee is upset!!! Fer you suthern Boyz....dats Lake Superior

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Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: Pappy on February 11, 2008, 08:42:25 am
Nice job Dana on a challenging stave,well done. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: GregB on February 11, 2008, 09:36:38 am
I would thin it a little, the reflex the right limb (2nd picture) to match the other limb. Then take off on tillering it... ;)
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 11, 2008, 01:27:55 pm
Greg I've cooked this thing so many times I afraid to try getting anymore from it.
At this point the wood has reached a comprimise with me ;D
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: koan on February 11, 2008, 01:39:39 pm
Nice work Dana, I know that ones been tuff....Brian
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: GregB on February 11, 2008, 03:02:25 pm
Oops! I was in a hurry this morning and entirely missed the 2nd and 3rd pages worth of pictures...day late and $ short I guess.  ;D
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 11, 2008, 05:41:13 pm
Greg I know the feeling well ;)
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: cowboy on February 11, 2008, 11:05:52 pm
Some of us Southern boys have heard of Gitche Gumee, Hmm - need to find that Gordon Lightfoot tape, haven't heard it in awhile :).
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: El Destructo on February 12, 2008, 12:11:21 am
Some of us Southern boys have heard of Gitche Gumee, Hmm - need to find that Gordon Lightfoot tape, haven't heard it in awhile :).

The Edmund Fitzgerald used to fill with Iron Ore in my Hometown when I was a Boy...and sail back to Canada or Cincinatti to inload....sen the Fitz many times as a Boy.....Lightfoot made a good Memorial Song there too...I still get Goosebumps when I hear it played on the Radio
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 12, 2008, 07:56:31 am
Yankee yer right about the goosebumps, Gordon Lightfoot never expected that song to be hit it was
my understanding is it was more of a filler on the album. I keep meaning to get to Whitefish Point to
the shipwreck museum to see the bell but never seem to make it.
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: GregB on February 12, 2008, 09:19:37 am
That's my favorite song of his... :)
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DCM on February 13, 2008, 03:41:39 pm
Nice job. 

I didn't catch the width?

I love to see elm bend.  For as light as it is, it's freaking tough as nails.
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 13, 2008, 04:08:55 pm
Thanks DCM this is my first elm and I can't believe how tough it is, I managed to crush the back in
one spot while take some twist out, I violated the grain some generally abused it and its holding together fine.
BTW its 1.5" wide at the handle. Will be post some pics of it soon have to get the finish on. Maybe tonight.
Title: Re: A new project
Post by: Texas Pete on February 13, 2008, 10:23:45 pm
Thats what I'm thinking Paul this won't be easy and to think I have nice striaght staves to work with ;)

Aawww its easier than you think.  A steamer made out of 4 inch PVC pipe and a metal gas cam makes things easier


Texas Pete
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 14, 2008, 09:59:29 pm
Very nice work, Dana. You did a great job. Jawge
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 15, 2008, 08:16:47 am
Thanks Jawge, I still need to get finished pics up, been busy.
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: Keenan on February 15, 2008, 01:47:22 pm
 Looking great Dana, I like the character. I've been working a little elm lately and definaltely learning some things about it.  Can't wait to see this one finished.   Keenan
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: John K on February 17, 2008, 07:22:07 pm
Dana, When you where straitening that elm would you clamp it to something until it cooled  ???
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: DanaM on February 17, 2008, 07:26:21 pm
Yup except when I was taking twist out then I used a 14" cresent wrench and hung a weight offin it, but make sure ya pad the jaws with thick leather or something. I didn't and dented the back :o But its holding together. Whoever says elm is second class wood is nuts its tough stuff ;D
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: John K on February 17, 2008, 08:38:03 pm
Thanks Dana, thats what i'll try  ;D
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: cowboy on February 19, 2008, 08:38:04 pm
I'll second that using some kind of pad under the crescent wrench - that hot wood is like soft clay or something to that affect :).
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: Justin Snyder on February 19, 2008, 11:42:39 pm
Dana, I have several bows with little circles from the C-clamps being tightened when it was hot.  It shoots great still so I just don't care enough to worry about it.  >:D Justin
Title: Re: A new project(more new pics)
Post by: PK on February 21, 2008, 02:39:32 am
Dana ya take great pics too. where are the Ice sickles. I don't like cali anymore.