Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Slackbunny on August 08, 2014, 08:51:32 pm

Title: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Slackbunny on August 08, 2014, 08:51:32 pm
So I was watching this show today. It was basically just like "Cops" but with forest rangers. I think it was on animal planet. In one scene a ranger was helping a hunter track a wounded deer that had been shot by an arrow. The ranger asked the guy how close he had been when he made the shot, and the hunter said he was about 10 yards away. The ranger then scolded him saying that 10 yards was too close for a bow shot because the arrow didn't have enough time to get up to speed and build its momentum.

I immediately called foul on that, and so should any highschool physics student. The most fundamental equation in classical physics is F=MA. Force equals mass times acceleration. This means you can't have acceleration without a force. Since all the force behind the arrow is applied by the string, the instant the arrow leaves the string it no longer has a forward force acting on it and will not accelerate forward anymore. Its already at its top speed when it leaves the string, and will only slow down due to drag until it stops completely by impacting the target.

So the ranger was definitely wrong about all that. But it did get me thinking. Is there such a thing as too close? Would the fishtailing motion of the arrow as it corrects for the archer's paradox throw off accuracy at close range? I doubt it would throw it off so much at such close range, and I'm assuming the guy in the show was probably using a compound so the archer's paradox wouldn't even apply to him. Do you think there was any validity to what the ranger said? Personally I think he was talking out of his arse.
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: JackCrafty on August 08, 2014, 08:59:00 pm
Ranger talking nonsense.  Not the first time.   They're only human.  ;D
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Newindian on August 08, 2014, 09:13:47 pm
The flexing of the shaft hurts penetration  at close range
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Danzn Bar on August 08, 2014, 09:21:01 pm
I don't think you can be too close, unless your in a tree stand, then "angle" has more to do with it.  Once early on in my hunting experience, I was in a tree stand, shot a big doe right under me.  It was drizzling rain, saw the deer jump off the arrow and watched it disappear out of site over a hill bout 50yds away.  I didn't wait long due to the rain, got down and pull the arrow out of the ground, plenty of good blood and a small white spongy piece of lung was next to the arrow.  Wow thought I had scored for sure, started over the hill where I lost sight of the deer.   And saw the doe laying down, she jumped up and took off like a shot.  Very disgusted I waited a half an hour and continued the tracking, about 100 more yards I saw a puddle of blood where the deer stood awhile.  It was raining pretty good by now, long story short, I looked for that deer another two hours in the night and went back the next day with a buddy and looked for another 6 hours.  Never found the deer,  I can only think that the arrow was a little off center and went through one lung.  A deer can run a long way spooked and with one lung.  I will never as take that shot again an will always be as quite after the shot as before.  I will also wait much longer before tracking and wait until the "angle" is better to get a double lung.  Only deer I've losted and think about it years later.
DBar

Sorry for getting off the subject a bit,,,,,, :)     
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Zuma on August 08, 2014, 10:05:54 pm
LOL I never let em get that close. 40-30 yards is where I practice.
At least the ranger was helping the dude track.
Usually they are out to bust ya.
Zuma
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Slackbunny on August 08, 2014, 10:35:06 pm
LOL I never let em get that close. 40-30 yards is where I practice.
At least the ranger was helping the dude track.
Usually they are out to bust ya.
Zuma

Yeah he seemed like a decent guy, just didn't really know what he was talking about. They ended up finding the arrow with some white hair on it, so they figured he just grazed it and that it never went down.
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 09, 2014, 12:22:38 am
When I saw that North Woods Law segment several months ago I went to their Facebook page and commented on the inaccuracy of the statement.
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Badly Bent on August 09, 2014, 11:38:19 am
With the kind of nonsense that gets on the boob tube it is no wonder we are always having to fight the misinformed
to keep our right to hunt. Even some of the programs on the hunting channels do us a disservice at times and these are from people trying to promote hunting.
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: turtle on August 09, 2014, 09:37:54 pm
Lol. Reminds me of a wildlife biologist that told a buddy of mine that deer wont eat corn off of the stalks in a corn field. Said they only eat what the coons leave on the ground.  :o
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Pat B on August 09, 2014, 11:33:28 pm
I contacted the head NC DNR Law Enforcement guy to have him explain to me what the regs meant by a "barbed" broadhead. He thought for a minute and said...it can't look like a fish hook. I said "GOOD!" none of my stone heads or trade points look like fish hooks. He came back with...maybe you ought to ask the officer who is writing the ticket.    :-\
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: mullet on August 10, 2014, 12:37:46 am
I contacted the head NC DNR Law Enforcement guy to have him explain to me what the regs meant by a "barbed" broadhead. He thought for a minute and said...it can't look like a fish hook. I said "GOOD!" none of my stone heads or trade points look like fish hooks. He came back with...maybe you ought to ask the officer who is writing the ticket.    :-\

I hear you Pat. My Buddy down here was an Agriculture Deputy Sheriff.  He gave some guys a ticket for hunting rabbits out of season. He told me about it and was proud until I told him you could hunt rabbits year round in Florida. Now he's a Wildlife Officer and I'm his best friend and Advisor. ::) 8) :)
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Del the cat on August 10, 2014, 03:02:32 am
Something foolish on TV? Surely not ;) ... you only have to watch the news for that :(.
Can they be too close? Yeah, they are only too close when their antlers are stickin' in you  :o
Del
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: chamookman on August 10, 2014, 04:31:56 am
I figured Pappy would comment on this one - He shoots 'Em pretty close. Bob
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: 4dog on August 11, 2014, 08:53:43 am
somethong foolish on tv?        NEVAH!!!!
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Pappy on August 11, 2014, 09:49:42 am
Yep if 3 or 4 yards is to close then I guess I let them get to close, :) taken a bunch at that range,must just be getting lucky as far as penetration goes. ;) :) :) :) TV = MOSTLY BULL s#!(( when it come to anything to do with real hunting. Zuma,30 40 yards ,WOW ,you are the man,I wouldn't even think about taking a shot that far,if fact at that range I haven't even picked my bow up yet unless they are in a fast steady walk toward me. ;) :) :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Marks on August 11, 2014, 12:12:52 pm
Poor guy. While I know he is wrong I can kind of understand why he would think that. When you were a kid did you ever have a friend push on roller skates or skate board or bike. We would have someone get behind you and run and push. Right before they let go they would give a hard shove. It always felt like you were still gaining speed for a second or 2 after they let go. I'll give the guy a pass on this one. I reckon we all have a few misconceptions about things. His just happened to be on national television. I hate to take it away from archery but you would think a ranger would be familiar with ballistics charts. Muzzle velocity is always the highest and it goes slower from there on out. As we say in Alabama, Bless his heart.
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Pappy on August 11, 2014, 05:55:51 pm
I remember that Mark, thing is in bows and arrows that last shove is the arrow coming off the string, sorry no pass here, that was just plane dumb Pappy
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: wapiti1997 on August 11, 2014, 06:41:21 pm
I saw that show, made me cringe when he said it.  He was a Maine state game warden, not a ranger, fyi.

I was once working a booth at an ATA show, had a bow company rep tell me that "their" bow shot flatter than other bows at the same fps...  I said to him " I'm not a rocket scientist, but, there is no possible way any bow design has any influence over an arrow after it leaves the string"  He quietly walked away...
Title: Re: Heard something foolish on TV
Post by: Dharma on August 19, 2014, 12:28:53 pm
I wouldn't put too much into what he said. The cameras were rolling and he wanted to look like he knew more than he really did so he could look like a tough guy for TV. Not the same, but I was at a housewarming party a few years ago and all these folks there were bragging about their collections of Anasazi pottery and artifacts (illegal) and who were these guys? Federal forest rangers. The best pothunters are the ones with the maps that show the sites only the government knows about.