Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Prarie Bowyer on July 25, 2014, 01:30:20 pm
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I'll be bringing home some 9"10" logs this weekend. TBB suggests that one can split them down to 2" wide sections or there abouts (working in even halving). But there have been some doubts cast on the TBB information accuracy by some here. I know from my other drying projects for carving that smaller tends to be fewer cracks but can be more warping.
My last load of Mullberry mis identified as Osage seems to have had several of my resawn boards pulled into deflex so much so that I wound up just tossing them. They were quartersawn so it was pulled lateraly.
What do you guys do?
I also thought about putting small wood strips like stickers betweenthe pieces then binding them with heavy nylon twine to keep them straight then periodically I could just tighten again as they shrink.
I also see some arguing for bark on, some say bark off but seal the sap wood, some say don't do anything.
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I think splitting the logs in half first then in a few weeks split them down to stave size(2" to 4" across the back) will help stabilize them.
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What wood are we talking about here, Prarie B? That is critical information.
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I'm with Pat, I do think a month as a half or quarter may lead to less warpage when you process further. But to some extent if it's going to warp it will do so regardless. The down side of leaving bark and sap wood on, is bug damage and/or mildew under the bark. I never put wood with bark indoors on my stash pile.
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What wood are we talking about here, Prarie B? That is critical information.
Oh right. Osage, iron wood, and mulberry.
Thanks guys.
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I'm with Pat, I do think a month as a half or quarter may lead to less warpage when you process further. But to some extent if it's going to warp it will do so regardless. The down side of leaving bark and sap wood on, is bug damage and/or mildew under the bark. I never put wood with bark indoors on my stash pile.
I agree!
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Whatever the wood species, split the logs at least in half and make sure to seal the ends.
From that point onward, opinions will vary. Here is my suggestion in a nut shell.
Did the halves split straight? With very few knots to worry about? Then you will get the most staves if you band saw the staves out. Aim for at least 2" wide staves in the center (tips may be narrower) for all staves, but make sure you measure the heartwood in the mulberry and osage. From the bigger logs, you can take off belly staves, if you have enough heartwood. Splitting is fine too (and necessary on twisted or knotted wood), but then you should aim for at least 2½" wide staves, due to some splinter tear out.
For the ironwood (I presume you mean hornbeam), you must remove the bark. Sealing the back with something like shellac is recommended, although slow drying of small diameter (<~3") staves is possible without sealant. No insecticide needed. For the osage and mulberry you must either leave the bark on AND spray the bark with insecticide (no sealant). OR you take off the bark, which also means that you must take off the sapwood AND seal the back with shellac or the like (no insecticide).
9" and 10" logs yield a lot of wood. Take your time reading the wood, looking at the bark. The first split into halves is not so critical, but after that, you need to know exactly where every bow will lie, before you make a cut/split. Position splits in small knots, take belly splits into account. If you're not sure what to do, just leave it as a half round log. That will dry fine as well (it just takes longer).
The reason for "I also see some arguing for bark on, some say bark off but seal the sap wood, some say don't do anything" is because they are all potentially right. No-one is wrong here. There are several options, which may all work, depending on the circumstances.
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Seal the ends. I wait about a week or so. Split them in half, half again and half again. I like 3 inch wide splits.
Jawge
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That Osage tree has been down long enough that the bark just peels off. The mulberry just came down and it is fused on. I think as it starts to shrink it will pop off easily.
No signs of rot or cracks in the Osage but there are little beetles between bark and sap wood, wich looks to be a tiny ring.
Mulberry has a clear band of white and softer sap wood.
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I have heard if you leave the bark on osage, you can spray it down with some diesel fuel to prevent bug damage. Has anyone here tried this method?
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Even though the osage has been down for a while it still holds moisture which it picked up from the ground. Splitting the log in half to allows some of that moisture to escape a little at a time. Get it split, off the ground and under cover.
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I go no smaller than 3" staves. My findings with osage is there is always a surprise under the bark, seldom a good one, a little extra width gives me a little wiggle room to avoid these "surprises' in a bow layout from the stave.
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I will try and split my Osage staves no less than 3" wide if possible. There are just to many secrets in osage we don't see until it is to narrow to make a bow. Split your logs in half and let them stabilize for a month or 2 then split them down to staves.
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I have heard if you leave the bark on osage, you can spray it down with some diesel fuel to prevent bug damage. Has anyone here tried this method?
Wood carvers have used paint thinner, or if you have big enough bag stuff it in a garbage bag with a rag soaked in something similar and tie it off for a couple days. I've seen critters go running. Also when pouring that or denatured alcohol into the holes.
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If you spray before wood wasps lay their eggs, maybe. Once they've gotten into the wood, they tend to form a plug behind them as they eat into the wood. Its why I always try and get bark and sapwood off, at least from the best of the staves.
I like a 4" split myself, depending on the thickness I've been able to get a belly split off with a froe and then I can bandsaw the outer piece in half and get three staves from the one split. But don't get greedy.
I don't like to bandsaw wood splits, mostly because its really hard on a 1hp bandsaw and you'll burn up a blade in a couple of splits. I do like the froe or hatchet to do fine splitting, it isn't as wide as wedges. You have to really try and read the grain and predict where it wiggles or flattens out on the butt end.
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Interesting. the first log section split straight.
The 2nd one not so much. I've got almost a quarter twist in the log. I'm thinking I need
to just saw that one. Or is it fine to split twisted staves out of then steam them straight when building the bows.
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"I never put wood with bark indoors on my stash pile."
I don't either, even osage.
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Split and straitened!
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If it split twisted it was growing twisted. Splitting generally follows the grain.
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If it split twisted it was growing twisted. Splitting generally follows the grain.
Right..... but at this point what will give the best useable yield? resawing or continued splitting?
Is that too much twist to remove from the staves?
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If you saw out a board what will the grain look like? will there be run offs? I there isn't too much twist you might be able to work it out with heat or tiller it out as you build the bow.
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Any run outs would be long and shallow.
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Jeeminy christmas, I've got all the large logs quartered. I was going to resaw at least one becasue I like the board bow process but I keep getting pulled onto other things.
The bark was falling off on its own but the wood looks good still. Actually the trunk may still be alive. As I cut sections getting toward teh roots, 1/2 of which are in the ground still I found a few live shoots.
I've got the ends painted and bark off.
Will the sap wood come off fairly easily by splitting it with a draw knife or am I going to need to just seal it? I don't think I'll have time to actuall de-sap wood all of this.
The stuff that I know is mullberry, that bark is on tight. Will need to be draw kniffed off.
Back to 10 hour days 5 days a week at work plus family/home duties so i'm working at a snails pace now. I'm happy to get an hour or 2 to work on breaking this wood down for drying and storage.
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I always peel the bark off as soon as possible when I cut a fresh log. Then split and quarter the log immediately. Then seal the ends and make a rough bow blank out of one of the quarters. I seal the backs if they are less than 3 inches wide. If the bow blank is drying fine after a couple weeks, I trim the other pieces down as much as time allows and clamp them to 2x4's if they are warping.
I've got some staves with the bark on in my shop but I received those in trades. I always immediately peel the ones I harvest myself.
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I always peel the bark off as soon as possible when I cut a fresh log. Then split and quarter the log immediately. Then seal the ends and make a rough bow blank out of one of the quarters. I seal the backs if they are less than 3 inches wide. If the bow blank is drying fine after a couple weeks, I trim the other pieces down as much as time allows and clamp them to 2x4's if they are warping.
I've got some staves with the bark on in my shop but I received those in trades. I always immediately peel the ones I harvest myself.
What about the sap wood? That is a tall order to get the sap wood off all this.
So you break some of it down into stave-ish sized pieces?
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I don't remove the sapwood until it's dry, if at all. Osage, of course, needs the sapwood removed because of its weakness (at least in my area). But on osage, I usually wait until it's dry as well.
Yes, I break one down from each log and floor tiller it the same day. It takes me less than an hour to do this, not counting the time it takes to transport and split the original log.
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Awesome.. so I'll leave the sap wood on after bark is peeled and any signs of bug holes are delat with (paint thinner seems to get them running), not that i've seen any in this wood yet.
I'm feeling a little less than confidant about matching up billet halves. I guess you'll just break them down to rough size then carve or mill them to match each other in size etc after dealing with the growth ring thing.
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You appear to be getting some bad advice here. I have cut hundreds of osage staves and learned the hard way, DON'T PEAL OFF THE BARK WITHOUT REMOVING THE SAPWOOD! You may live in a cooler, damp area where you can get away with just removing the bark and sealing the sapwood.
Where I live no amount of sealer will keep sapwood from cracking, deep cracks, often through the heartwood.
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Bark was falling off on its own.