Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Viking on May 11, 2014, 10:08:05 am
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Greetings,
A friend brought up a truckload of Oklahoma Osage. Ther are two logs that are 6' long and 6 in diameter at the small end. He also brought 8 or so splits that are all propeller twisted. The guy he got them from said they were straigt until last summer which was a particularly wet humid year and they all twisted in his barn. The ends show checking through the first 3-4 rings. We took the bark off one last night and discovered that the checks on that one ran the length of the split. The rings on that price were a 1/2 thick at one end and between 1/8 and 1/4 on the other end. One of the splits has a 1" limb knot in it, there appears to be enough wood on both sides to accommodate the whole, it is near the handle. Out if a truckload they are probably 2 maybe 4 bows if I billet some of them.
Not sure what to do, an experienced bowyer could probably make this stuff work.
I could probably steam the propeller out.
Looking for some thoughts and guidance on what to do with this wood. I would not have bought any of it had I been there. My friend didn't pay much. The guy through in for "free" a bunch of it. I know why, but want to give something to my friend for the trouble.
Thanks for any guidance you guys can offer.
Chris
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One more thing. The giant ring wood, can a bow made from Osage have limbs that are one ring thick? Some of the wood had 1/2 to 5/8 thick rings.
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Sometimes the rings are really thick at the base of the tree.. If your staves are long enuff you could cut some length off from the base end and see what you have, rings do get thinner as you go up the tree generally. Dont sweat the twist..a heat gun or steam will take that right out. Dont worry, theres bows in there ;).... Brian
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Osage manipulated easily with heat. Actually I haven't made many osage bows that I didn't use heat to straighten or bend with heat. When you are ready to work the staves, remove the bark and sapwood and seal the back and ends well(shellac, carpenters both glue work well), rough out the bow and then you can make it workable with heat. "Character" staves will teach you a lot about building wood bows. Ask questions her, post pics and be ready to absorb all of the info you will receive. ;)
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Matt picked them out and I came down from the prices I had marked on them , the twisted and checked ones were from the only pile of osage I have that was seasoned .
He bought four and I have him the rest , I told him I was going to send some osage back with him .
You will probably want to split the logs down soon and watch for signs of borers .
I should have taken a pic of his load , there was one he got that I was saving back to cut down for billets that had a big knot about halfway down the stave and some of the staves have at least two bows in them .
Maybe you can post a picture and the folks here can guide you through it .
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Here is a pic Matt sent me of one that they started on .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/726C6C8F-CDE8-45C0-9024-9A9C63700CEC-10766-000014D63CFF25AE_zpsc2424ce2.jpg)
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Chis , did you take the sapwood off down to the yellow wood ?
There are a lot of one ringed bows out there , osage is tough and forgiving , I've seen and have some bows that are only an inch wide and a lot are only 1 1/2" wide at the fades depending on style and length .
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Hey Chris..this is Chris ;) are y'all gonna make Marshall this year? If so bring em down and we'll get ya squared away there for sure...plenty of gurus will be there as ya know ;)
Oh...and congrats on the baby girl :D ....hope to see ya soon ;)
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Hey Chris,
Make yourself a nice bow out of it. See if yours is better than Matt's and you guys can bring them both to the Forest City tournament in June. Do you you know who this is yet? ;)
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WoodBender - not exactly sure, but mentioning Forest City sure does narrow it down.
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Blackhawk - yes we will be at Marshall. I am thinking of driving two vehicles so I can bring the truck and the wood along. We will be arriving sometime Thursday and staying through sometime Monday afternoon.
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Poggins - I hope I did not come across too harsh in my IP. I am very green when it comes to bow making, and even greener in picking wood. Thus the post here. I figured you were on this board and put as much description in the post as possible so you would recognize the wood. I have all the wood at my home in Indiana. He and I worked out a trade.
That is me in that picture. That piece has a lot of character, but has several significant checks. I think there is a bow in it, but will wait until I can talk with an experienced bowyer at Marshall.
I will take some pics and post them here.
I am just about done with a blank for Matt from the wood he brought up. very pretty wood, and very dense rings. i took the bark and very thick sap wood off and discovered some checking. I then took the next ring off (3/8 thick), which was a bear to remove, and most if not all of the checking that was concerning was taken off with that ring.
I have already encountered one live bore in one of the seasoned pieces that had bark on it. I am going to try and take the bark and sapwood off the rest of the split ones and split the logs and do the same to try and get ahead of the bores.
if that big knot was placed a little differently it would make a very neat "see through" bow, but I fear it is too close to the handle... billets is what I was thinking as well.
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Kaon and Pat B - thanks for the input, it gives me hope that I can make it work. I have heat treated one blank with Matt Wirwicki this winter, and I am working up my first form today. Saw some neat tricks to heat out the propeller twist using a wrench, string, bucket and water to hold the counter twist until it cools
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here is the piece i am working up for Matt B. I am shooting for a 60#@24" bend in the handle bow 48 inches nock-to-nock, that will have flipped tips and sinew backing and dressed up with snake skin.
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Naw you didn't sound upset , my sanity was being tested by all the wind we had yesterday , woke up to 25-30 mph winds and they were up to 35-40 by noon and hot and humid .
I had never had my wood go south on me that bad before , I've had logs that I cut late out of dozer piles check on me but not staves and the warping was new also , I had cut it in early March and split it then in June I removed the sapwood and sealed the backs , late June and July the rains , humidity and heat set in and I hadn't been to the barn for a couple of weeks , some had warped so bad they shoved other staves from the rack . Some warped with bad deflex and propeller twist and some staves that I hadn't had a chance to remove the sapwood on checked bad .
Is Matt keeping some for himself ?
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It's Si. Hey, it's party time Jack.
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Osage manipulated easily with heat. Actually I haven't made many osage bows that I didn't use heat to straighten or bend with heat. When you are ready to work the staves, remove the bark and sapwood and seal the back and ends well(shellac, carpenters both glue work well), rough out the bow and then you can make it workable with heat. "Character" staves will teach you a lot about building wood bows. Ask questions her, post pics and be ready to absorb all of the info you will receive. ;)
Would wood glue work as well?
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Most use Elmer's wood glue , it's about the cheapest thing you can find .
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Here is one of those twisted warped staves I'm working on .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/4FE59CE0-0B86-4B65-B73E-5FB0905E43FC-10836-000014DDA63F05A4_zpsdab1c267.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/BB7DB298-62F8-459C-BCC1-C3651ADB5BFF-12087-000016913841E290_zps97cc7bab.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/6EF1A4E8-0A53-4570-9787-5EB0A656C5E6-12087-000016914CF62EC6_zps86177459.jpg)
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Mmm toughie
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90 degree twist , both limbs had to be moved the same direction , one about 1 1/2" the other 3"-4" , heat gun , cooking spray , caul , and lots of clamps .... no problem with osage .
Will need to do some more manipulating when I get it to floor tiller .
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Chris - Congrats on the new addition ! Tell the Boys I said hello - good bunch of Hedge. Bob
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Poggins, thats about normal for my osage pile, lol. Osage sure loves the heat gun... Brian
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woodbender - it is good to hear from you. i trust things are going well with you. are you going to be at the forest city archers event in june?
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Poggins, what do you use the cooking spray for, and what is caul?
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chamookman - thanks, it has been a wonderful spring! the little girl will be with us at marshall, looks like uncle bob has a new niece :)
i hope you are doing well, too bad we did not get a chance to meet up when we were at Matt & Heathers this winter. Look forward to seeing you at Marshall.
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Chris , the cooking spray is to keep the wood from scorching too much when you heat it , a caul is a form that we use to straighten a bow or add recurves .
I spray both sides of the stave so if the heat gets around to the back it won't scorch ether .
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Cool beans man...c ya soon then...can't wait for it ;)
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Ok , here is that stave I was staighting , just the first round for now , I will get it better when I get it closer to being done .
It's close but will need a little more to center the string with the handle .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/4883A5EF-2C1A-4D81-AE3E-4D537F8007CA-12767-000017D8A0F9A18C_zps8bc06ffa.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/D014DF21-32CF-4A58-9003-AD3BE0670C77-12767-000017D8A999F36F_zps0e2d6d08.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/ECBA4E27-1835-4B47-B068-3BF5DE02B1BA-12767-000017D8B1D8D5B7_zpsbcbe4703.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/DAFF9AF1-09B7-41BF-8647-EDBDC10862E3-12767-000017D8BAACCC11_zps27b6bd72.jpg)
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Here was another view of the stave before the heat .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/BD0D4023-D4D7-44B3-896C-F58F9D27D5F2-12087-000016914349BB8F_zps7a8bc056.jpg)
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Got it bending now , 16" on the long string with the string adjusted short enough that I had to bend the bow a little to get it on , got close on centering the string first shot , about a half inch off to one side of the handle .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/40DEB0D7-0ACC-4A20-A8A8-1904475BEFDD-12896-000017FD1F52AC36_zpse233de53.jpg)
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Good job on that straightening!
Be aware that heat bending, AND steam bending, dries out the wood. You need to wait at least 24 hours before you stress the bow. This little bit of long string tillering won't hurt, but don't go further.
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It had been 24 hours , straightened it the evening before and left it on the caul .
Well seasoned osage and chasing the ring for the back was a breeze , if there had been too much moisture in it when I put as much heat to it as I did it would have split in places ( had that happen before ) , sprayed lots of cooking oil on the back to keep the heat from scorching the back , took over a dozen clamps to get it straight .
Followed the grain out to the levers then avoided some checks that were still in the back out on the levers ( has some funny looking jogs where the working limb ends and levers start) , there is still one check in the center of one lever , I'll super glue it later when I'm finished with the heat .