Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: BrokenArrow on March 10, 2014, 03:48:37 pm
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I like to go to the indoor shooting ranges to test my new bows I have built. I can shoot 3 arrows in the time it takes the compound shooter to even aim their first shot.
I look at those futuristic things with sights, stabilizers, triggers etc and think why not just get a gun and go to a gunpowder shooting range??
What are the best one liners any of you have used to address this kind of pretend archer??
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It's funny isn't it a lot of compound shooters I've met tell me there bows are real "bows" compared to mine I just say ok sure and laugh alittle lol I don't like to argue But when it takes you longer to nock your arrow then it does to load up a muzzle loader somethings not right lol
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I don't say much, they can out shoot me and most of us at 10 yards and 50. To each their own.
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I have never had anything but positive comments from the wheeley guys most are envious and wish the could shoot one. Its all good shoot what you like.
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"Where's the cup holder?"
"How many RPM's that baby running?"
"I remember when I used training wheels"
"What's with the fishin rod?"
There's a few I like to spout off jokingly of course:)
To each their own.
:D
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The best one liner is a well-placed arrow that hits the target with authority. :)
I have had positive interactions at the indoor range with compound shooters. Just last week, a guy that I have seen shooting there 4 or 5 times, suddenly asked, "did you make that bow?" I said, yeah I did, out of osage. Wanna shoot it? He stepped right up and I handed him the bow. I had to coach him on his grip, as he was trying to straight wrist a bulbous handle. Once he got that, the arrow fell of the nock, but he picked it up with no shame and nocked it again, started to draw, then turned to his buddies and said it pulls a lot harder than you would think. He got it to about 3/4" draw and sent the arrow down range at a snails pace to hit 2' feet low....but then he turned and grinned like a kid who just shot a bow for the first time. :) He was pretty interested and all of a sudden my best buddy.
The reason compound hunters dont just pick up a rifle, is because the compound gives them access to archery seasons which are generally longer seasons. Also they are before rifle season, so you get first crack at the animals. The increased number of bow-hunters is really starting to hurt archery hunting here in Oregon.
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Nice twig....
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The increased number of bow-hunters is really starting to hurt archery hunting here in Oregon.
Not trying to get off topic but you are right!
I took weylin and his dad to my old elk hunting spot where only a couple guys I knew hunted.
Sure enough it was crawling with wheels and over-callers.
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The last wheelie guy I practiced with was Joe Wilkin. He's competing at the international level.
I'd razz him for missing X's in good fun, but didn't joke about his training wheels. Much
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"Do the training wheels come off when you learn how to shoot?"
I made a store clerk REALLY mad with that one when I was in a Bass Pro Shop looking for a shooting tab...
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heck not everyone drives the same truck, or likes the same food, I get nothing but positive comments on my bows from the modern shooters, bub
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I usually get alot of compliments when I bring My osage selfbow to the range. Backed it with prairie rattler, gave is a beaver tail handle and beaver string silencers. Then I usually shoot as well as they do at 30 yards. But then again, they're using machines, not bows. >:D
G
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I'm going to my first wheelie 3d shoot this weekend with my selfbows. If anybody gives me a hard time I'll tell them a real man can kill a deer with a stick, string, and a pointy rock ;D I doubt I will get any negative comments. I have only got positive remarks about my bows and gear. Most people are fascinated by it.
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My teachers in school use to have an old saying, Its not how cool your tool is, but wheather the guy knows how to use it...! :P
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I don't say anything either...I remember when I was, and still have a lot of friends and family who shoot compounds. Haven't shot one in years though ;)
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If you wanna get wheelie bow shooters interested and coming over to the dark side, probably best to keep the one-liners to yourself. After all, we're all flinging arrows... just different.
I've shot 'em all over the years... compounds, sights, trigger release, FG stick bows, recurves and all the way round to making my own gear. Most wheelie bow shooters are curious, and most aren't rude about your tackle. If I do get a cocky compound shooter making a smart arsed comment, I usually tell him/her that someday they'll give up their training wheels... the standard come back. Most are curious... but afraid. Nothing like a well placed arrow to say all you need to say.
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I don't encounter many hunters when I am out, but every encounter I have had has been positive. Sometimes its a little annoying politely answering a thousand questions when I just want to get on my way. FG bows are becoming more popular around here but most hunters have never seen a self bow or sinew back bow and are naturally curious.
The most common comment I hear is "I am going to switch to traditional after I have killed an elk with my compound".
I picked up a hunting magazine in the store the other day that was full of crossbow articles. I was just skimming but I noticed one of the articles was referring to compounds as "more traditional" archery hunting.
Patrick
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The Late Jay Massey called them," projectile launching devices". Dale
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I like guns and bows. I will continue to shoot both.
But now that I have made my own bow with my own two hands. I probably won't ever buy a compound bow. I hope to have myself a hunting weight wood bow and enough practice by archery season to feel ethical about hunting with it. If i'm not, I plan to hunt with a rifle. A rifle is familiar, and I know I can harvest deer with it. My tune may change when I make meat with a bow I made.
Instead of making fun of "modern" shooters, why not try to convert them to something more traditional and primitive? Most of them probably just aren't yet aware of how much they would love it.
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I use a few lines on them jokingly. But i have a lot of Compound shooter friends, who i am currently corrupting. I even had a bow building class a few saturdays ago and had 5 compound shooters in it making there own longbows. My favorite line to make them understand my point of view is " we can't all be snipers, someones gotta carry the machine gun". We're all bowhunters even if they lean more to the side of science.
I also proved a good point to them on saturday when there was a fun shoot with a pig target swinging on a pendulum and you had 10 seconds to score a 10 point shot. Before the other guys could even draw i had scored a 12 ( it was only at 10 yards) and was the first one to move onto the next round at 20 yards. That made a few of them think a little. Course once we moved back to 20 yards i had significantly more trouble (timing issues). Either way we ALL were having fun, and no one doubted the lethality of my chosen weapon at its respective range. My point being is, it would be easier to make friends with them and then prove your point. Than to spout off a smart a#$ remark and reaffirm there distaste for us trad shooters.
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Instead of making fun of "modern" shooters, why not try to convert them to something more traditional and primitive? Most of them probably just aren't yet aware of how much they would love it.
+1
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Instead of making fun of "modern" shooters, why not try to convert them to something more traditional and primitive? Most of them probably just aren't yet aware of how much they would love it.
+1
Yeah my one liners don't go to total strangers, that wouldn't be right.
Only to the boys i grew up with :D
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I go hunting with my best friend who I gave a compound I shot a dozen times and didnt like. He has shot a few of my bows (broke one too!) and was more inclined to use the compound. I gave it to hom for his borthday and two hours later he was kneeling by his first ever bow kill. I think everyone likes different things and I have no problem respecting their choice as long as mine is equally respected. we pick on one another about these things and my usual point of "attack" is that I can go through any terrain without making a clinking, metallic/non organic noise that rings out through the woods! he poits out that he has sites... I think I win! :laugh:
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Once in a while we will razz one another a bit...but.... Bottom line is...I like shooting with friends and family. Some of my friends and family shoot compounds. I think no less of them because of the tool they choose to hunt with.
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In a club where it was me, a fiberglass shooter, and ten+ compound shooters, I didn't give the one-liners. It started with one guy wanting to try the molle I had that day, then another, and soon all but one sourpuss had proven that nobody but the fiberglass guy was a good shot ;)
The sourpuss brought up how it's completely impractical for hunting, and I didn't have to say anything in defense as the others brought up how our ancestors hunted, how an arrow flying at lethal velocity is going to kill as long as it's placed properly, and even that it would be a greater show of skill to take an animal with my stick and string than with their own compounds.
We all shook hands and I intend to shoot there again, though I have no idea if that was a regular crowd. The compounders all seemed to be buds there together, and the fiberglasser and I were just there.
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Two of my good hunting partners shoot compounds and I can’t see them ever giving them up for a traditional bow. They are so darn accurate with those things and shots on elk are so far and few between that for them, it would be like starting over again. It’s not going to happen.
The club that I belong to is 95% compound shooters. They are generally polite when they see me with my primitive tackle, but most are seriously committed to hunting with modern weapons and show little interest in my gear.
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Wow, I wish I could shoot at well as a compounder at 30 yards! Those coffe cup lid groupings make me jealous.
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As he steps up to the line beside you... "Hey, try not to scratch my bow with all that stuff."
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Most times I just smile and move on,occasionally will ask,if I know them well,is that thing got electric start on it I see the kick stand. ;) ;D I love it when they ask,Man can you really hunt with that stuff. ;) :) :) Mostly they are nice and seem interested but you will see most next year and they still shooting wheels. ;) :)
Pappy
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All the wheelie boys I encounter are very polite and interested in my equipment, I treat them with the same respect. I do slide in one bit of food for thought though when I tell them I shoot bows I make because I am cheap and only have about a buck fifty in the bow(for string material and finish) and almost nothing in my arrows but the cost of nocks and points because I traded wild turkey feathers for the shafts.
The above "food for thought" really sparks their interest but so far I only know one guy who has put down his wheels and made his own bow.
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All the wheelie boys I encounter are very polite and interested in my equipment, I treat them with the same respect. I do slide in one bit of food for thought though when I tell them I shoot bows I make because I am cheap and only have about a buck fifty in the bow(for string material and finish) and almost nothing in my arrows but the cost of nocks and points because I traded wild turkey feathers for the shafts.
The above "food for thought" really sparks their interest but so far I only know one guy who has put down his wheels and made his own bow.
Most of the compound shooters that I know well are PROUD of how much their gear costs. Gotta have the latest and greatest. I don't get it, but I don't understand a lot of what most people do.
Patrick
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The Late Jay Massey called them," projectile launching devices". Dale
That's funny, that's what I've been calling 'em. Last time I checked, it ain't a bow unless it bends!
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Have never owned one nor do I practice or hunt with those who do. I get alot of stares at the range and in the woods...Some questions and some rude comments...But My freezer is always full...In the end, enjoyment of ones sport and a full belly win out....
On a side not, one of my neighbors has come up with a Hickory stave and has been asking alot of questions about My bow.....Silently converting the world, One Archer at a time ;D
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It seems most people into this love messing around with tools no matter what your working on. Not only do I like archery but I love my time in the shop. So for the few compound guys I know I don't expect much of a positive response unless they like crafting things. The one thing I do brag about is the cost difference. While I spend my time in the shop they spend there time planning how to spend their next check :)
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I've been around long enough to remember when those things first started showing up. I can remember the first time I saw one. I was coming up out of the woods after shooting a round at our club, which at the time was very deep into field archery with three 14 target circuits winding through a hilly, beautiful woods full of mature hardwood of a variety native to this area. Anyway, the shack we proudly called the club house was well adorned with pegs for hanging bows and on that day I saw this thing hanging there and was truly mystified! Black, cables, sheet metal, what the heck, it was butt ugly!!! Turns out it was an Allen compound bow. Archery had been and still so much more than hitting a bulls eye every time and I stood there staring at this thing wondering how, why would anyone want something like this. I am not the greatest shot in the woods, but always manage to hold my own, but we did have a few members that despite trying every available aid, taped, screwed, or pinned to their bow, could not hold a group under sixteen inches at thirty yards, yet they were there year after year trying, and I so admired their perseverance!!!! Well, over the next couple years many of those same folks acquired those mechanical contraptions complete with sights, stabilizers, levels, a few unidentifiable's and something else for that most critical moment, a release aid! Over the next decade, I became one of only a handful of traditional shooters and as time went on, I became the only traditional shooter, and even worse, on our typical Wednesday night gathering we still had a small turnout, I became the "only" shooter! It seems that as equipment got more refined, a lot of those compound shooters no longer felt the need to practice, lost interest, or just plain killed the spirit within themselves that brought them to archery in the first place. Many have been replaced with fellows that have never held a traditional bow, let alone seen the stuff like I make. I get a lot of questions, puzzled looks and kidding of a good nature, and don't mind a bit. I still love the sport and have never disparaged the choices people make, but have never warmed to the idea of owning one. I have had a to each his own and a live and let live approach towards life, I may not agree with the decisions people make but have always appreciated that people should be free to make them, something our government has forgotten, to the detriment of us all. Sad, but the fight goes on!
Robby
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I respect everyone's choice to shoot anything that has an arrow, to me it is all a good time!!!! To crap on someone because they are not shooting what you think is the only way to go is very closed minded and a bit unfair >:( a good ribbing between friends is all in good fun , but Snide remarks reflect poorly on us as a group...why all the hate?
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I started with an old martin tiger compound and found that sights and all the fancy stuff just messed me up. I got it free I was happy to have a bow while waiting for my first bow making workshop, but I found I couldn't shoot it unless I took everything off of it and shot it like a traditional bow. It managed to tear my shoulder up b/c of the need to somewhat hold it and aim, out me out of shooting for over a year. Just got back in and finished my first bow
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I hunt public ground for the most part and even though its mostly crowded I rarely run into a traditional bow hunter much less a primitive guy like myself. The vast majority are compound shooters and most have little or no
interest in my equipment which is Ok because I have absolutely no interest in theirs. The few that do show interest
sometimes will say something like, I don't think I could hit anything with that, to which I usually respond, sure you could with a little practice. I'll try and explain a little about the essence of primitive archery so they'll understand why we do it this way. Sometimes I think it might give them some food for thought and further down the road that person may be ready for a further challenge or to step back and put some enjoyment back into archery.
I save the one liners for the cocky young first timers at the range who have their first bow and are bragging about the monster buck they are gonna kill this fall having never hunted a day in their life yet. Or for my one brother who went to a compound a few years ago after losing a couple deer with his recurve even though he had taken around 13 deer cleanly in about 8 years with the recurve. He found out soon enough that you can lose 'em with the rocket launcher too. He'll come back eventually.
But he's my bro so we can razz each other and no one gets hurt. ;)
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Wheelies brought about "instant archers". To Me, a certain element (mind set) that Our sport didn't need. My .02 - Bob.
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Compound bows are what started me and many others in archery. I can't really knock em' if I used to use them. I will say that compounds and traditional/primitive gear are two way different animals.
Now, if someone were to give me a hard time over my choice of gear I'd probably dish it right back with an old classic... the yo' momma.
-Dan
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I am a recent convert (just over a year ago). I bought the nicest equipment I could afford and competed for many years with a compound, both on the amateur 3D circuit and in indoor leagues. I met many fine folks along the way and received lots of coaching from accomplished pros. Most were more than generous with their time and advice. Once I discovered primitive archery, I sold everything and now shoot and hunt with my own bows. I still keep in touch with some of them and take an annual bow hunting trip with them. Even though I have changed my preferences, they are still the same good ole guys and all were very congratulatory when I killed my first self bow deer on our hunt this past season, as happy for my accomplishment as I was. While I don't foresee them converting to "my" way of hunting, we will remain hunting buddies and lifelong friends. I don't consider them "the enemy" or hold any animosity toward them at all for their choice of gear.
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Compounds ......blah >:D! Blah blah blah from so and so shoots faster, $$$$, kills more game, replaceable blades, syn-pathetic bow strings, chrono, speed, distance all amounts to BORING.
Most local "archery" clubs in my area are 95% c-bows. Not knocking c-bows but I just cant stand the "in" crowds comparing c-bows or shooting distances.
IMO finding/gathering available materials, craftsmanship, skill at stalking/hunting/tracking, primitive survival skills, and spiritual side of archery is what I missed most when I shot C-bows. I wanna relearn and maybe even teach the traditional values of hunting. In apache everything about the bow or arrow has a purpose, song and power. How songs were sung to find the bow wood and arrows. Not many mention the relationship between an arrow and the game intended to hunt. Apache style foreshafts were made from mahogany because deer/elk love mahogany for food. Primitive skills and crafts just kicks arse.
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Well, if a person was looking for a defensive weapon and couldn't utilize a firearm for whatever reason, a compound bow would be the way to go. I've read of two incidents where a compound bow was used for such doings and in both cases, the guy zapped dropped in seconds. Just a wild card to throw into this shuffle, as it were.
I've never shot a compound bow so can't really speak about whether or not it's fun to shoot. If someone likes the weapon, well, who am I to offer up criticisms. But it isn't my bow of choice.
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One of my best hunting friends purchased an original Allen bow when they first came out. He never bought another bow and killed a ton of deer with it. My first was a Pacer bow. I have owned at least 5 compounds. I have also purchased several recurves and have made at least 7 self bows. I love archer in all forms except crossbows. I suspect at later age I may need one of those also. I enjoy going into the woods carrying any of the listed bows. It's the challenge and skill of getting in close quarters with game that is awesome.
Given a choice I would rather share the woods with a compound or crossbow hunter than someone with a magnum scoped rifle that kills at 500 yards. That's just me..
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Having hunted with a plethora of weapons, from selfbows to compounds and flint lock front stuffers to AR platform so called black rifles and yes scoped high power rifles I could care less what is being hunted with providing the weapon is adequate for the task at hand and the shooter proficient in its use. All the elitist BS quite frankly is beginning to boar the snot out of me. This topic is brought up in some shape or form every few months and it is really pointless. Instead of everyone bashing everyone else's method of hunting, how about just be thankful that you live in a free country that still allows hunting. If it were not for the vast numbers of hunters of every strife, hunting would already be illegal here as it is in many other countries. We all have our own individual preferences on how we fill our freezer. Be glad that you and and the rest of the free people still have that choice. Not everyone does. Josh
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;)
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Ditto Gun Doc.
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A bow is supposed to be a stick and a string, not three or 4 string and a contraption.
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In the BIG PICTURE, you nailed it Gun Doc... 8)
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Well said, Gun Doc. My feelings exactly.
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not opposed to using the right tool for a job...that being said...when your at a 3d shoot...those wheelie boys...just take too long and dont seem to be having any fun...seems more like golf all whispers and or quiet...us trad guys...we get our biz done quick and are boisterous while doin it!!
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That has been my observation as well 4dog! HaHaHaHa!
Robby
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A horse is a horse, of course of course, and a bow is a bow, ya know ya know...
...sorry, couldn't help it... :)