Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Eric Garza on March 04, 2014, 11:10:26 pm
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I've been inspired by the many deflex-reflex and deflex-recurve bows I've seen posted here. Although I've made a few recurves, most of my bows have been more or less straight. I've got a really nice osage stave that I'm planning on turning into a bow over the next few months, and am planning on deflexing it in the handle. My question is whether I should make a caul and reflex the limbs, or make a smaller caul to recurve the tips? What would be the practical difference between these two options, assuming that the bow, once shot in, ended up with the tips the same distance in front of the handle? I'd be shooting for having the tips end up 1-2 inches in front of the handle, so not too far forward. I'm also planning for the last 8 inches of the tips to not bend, which would make the recurves statics if I go that route.
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Just an opinion here Eric, I think if both designs were optimized the recurve would have a slight edge. The recurve is slighty harder to optimize than the reflexed bow. The recurve will store more energy and have a little smoother draw, the reflexed bow will still store a lot of energy but be slightly more efficient. On any given day you may do a better job on one than the other so I call it a toss up in general but for myself I do better with the reflexed.
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Recurving is generally done to get a more even bend out of a shorter working limb . reflexing would be to bring the limb tips forward to get a higher early draw weight. Depends on what you need to accomplish . If you are deflexing the handle you will likely want to get those tips forward as you said(reflex) . recurves would add a whole new challenge that isn't really necessary if you have a good amount of working limb. IMHO
Good Luck! Looking forward to seeing some pics.
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I have been wondering about this myself.
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The point of a recurve is that (all things equal!) it will allow you to bend a stiffer piece of wood for the same force on your fingers.
I think a reflex/deflex recurved profile is the fastest going.....but they aren't easy to tiller correctly.
Good luck anyway.
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Errrr maybe I'm being thick here ::)
Would someone care to expound on the difference between reflex and recurve?
Del
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Reflex = the whole limb (working)
Recurve = just the tips (working or not )
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I disagree Lostarrow. A reflexed bow can be made so that the reflexed area is isolated in the outer limb and can also be made non-bending.
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Isnt that a recurve...
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cat ... pigeons >:D
Del
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Reflex = the whole limb (working)
Recurve = just the tips (working or not )
+1. This is my understanding of the terms.
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DwS, Why do you think that's not just a recurve?
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I think the biggest challenge with recurves is keeping the outer limb mass reasonably low. We have several on here that have gotten very good at this.
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I do agree that the difference between a recurve and reflex can be fuzzy. What I mean when I say recurve is the heated-in bend is focused in the last 8-10 inches of the bow limb, and the curved portion of the limb doesn't bend when the bow is drawn. What I mean when I say a reflexed limb is that the heated-in bend is focused throughout the limb, and while the tip might not bend there is a substantial portion of the reflexed portion of the limb that does bend when the bow is drawn. I'm not claiming this is the final word on the difference between these two designs, just defining them within the context of the question I started the thread with.
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U can still reflex a recurve, from what I understand a recurve is a steap bend on the end of the limb. Reflex is a gradually increasing bend from fade to tip. U can do both. The bow mikeswick made, my best stave so far . That's the one that stands out to me. It was black locust. I know osage could handle a design like that. But I don't know if it'd be that fast. BL is knarly.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,38697.45.html
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Now guys are just making up definitions of their own it seems....
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How so?
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The terms 'reflex' and 'recurve' are pretty intimately related. Recurve is just a more extreme form of reflex. You can have a static recurve which does not work (or bend) at full draw, and a working recurve which does. You generally need a static recurve to be more sharply curved to prevent it from bending. Not always, but generally. Also, the recurved tips are at the distal end of the limb. Reflex can be induced throughout the length of the entire limb.
Reflex is defined as any bend towards the back, or away from the belly. Deflex is any bend or curvature towards the belly or away from the back of the bow.
Reflex or recurve does NOT have to be induced with heat! It can, but not always. I just finished a static recurve laminate bow to prove that. Reflex or recurve can be induced during glue up. Perry reflex I believe it's called.
In my understanding of the terms, a longbow is a longbow only because the string only touches the bow at the nocks. What happens between those points is open to interpretation, and various shapes will store more or less energy.
A recurve is a recurve because the string lays on, or touches, the tip before in reaches the nock.
Many permeations exist. Reflexed static recurves, static recurves, working recurves, reflex/deflex static recurves, reflexed working recurves, reflexed longbows, reflex/deflex longbows... I'm sure I've missed a few. Just remember, the more reflex or recurve the limb has, the more energy it will store, all else being equal. Recurves and reflex also reduce full draw string angle and make the bow smoother and more pleasant to shoot.
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Here's a reflexed static recurve. Stores an enormous amount of energy. It would be faster than a static rcurve, working recurve, or reflexed bow... all else being equal.
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Is this a recurve, or a longbow? The tip is definitely reflexed, but by the strictest definition, I would call it a longbow. The string is only touching the bow at the nock.
I call it a 'recurve' but really, it's not.
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Reflexed limbs. Longbow, or recurve?
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For me personally, its all about what I want to see in my hand. Just so happens I think static recurves are gorgeous bows, so I make them. As far as performance, not sure Ive ever noticed a difference. In my mind, low set tillering is where that comes from. No matter the design.
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Reflex = the whole limb (working)
Recurve = just the tips (working or not )
what if the levers on a molle are reflexed and not recurved in to hooks?
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How about make a few of each,and make up your own opinion,preference,and bias...because that's the only kind of answers you'll get here.....I like and make both,and will hunt with either one...I do make more in a R/D shape tho,as they're easier n less fussy to make,and still draw smooth,shoot well,and perform good for me...BUT my answers just an opinion just like everyone elses answer here ;)
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Here's a reflexed static recurve. Stores an enormous amount of energy. It would be faster than a static rcurve, working recurve, or reflexed bow... all else being equal.
I'd call that beaut' a bow with backset limbs and static recurves... or maybe... ;)
Del
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Reflex = the whole limb (working)
Recurve = just the tips (working or not )
what if the levers on a molle are reflexed and not recurved in to hooks?
I call that a molly curve ;) look em up...I've made a few here n there ;)
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How so?
Most Archery publications or books reached a consensus on terminology but people now just call bows as they see them personally.
I'm not sure why it has to be TOO complicated, particularly in bow styles where they are very definitely of a type.
It is also easy enough to list all the attributes a bow has working from the handle out.
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Reflex = the whole limb (working)
Recurve = just the tips (working or not )
what if the levers on a molle are reflexed and not recurved in to hooks?
I call that a molly curve ;) look em up...I've made a few here n there ;)
thats what i was thinking about.
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my version of a Blackhawk molly curve with hooks(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/ishi%20book/daisys%20history/101_4445_zps33add955.jpg) (http://s623.photobucket.com/user/bubncheryl/media/ishi%20book/daisys%20history/101_4445_zps33add955.jpg.html)
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See... I knew I'd miss one. >:(
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I think pretty much what adb said,I know in the tournament world if the string touches the limb anywhere other than the nocks it is considered a recurve. ;)
Pappy
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Yep Pappy, thats all there is to it. If is just barely touching it is considered a recurve.
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I consider anything over 56" a long bow.... >:D
I have always been told at shoots that as others have stated, the string touching the limb other than the nocks of a braced bow = recurve.