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I’m building a bow with a very specific purpose. That is my dream of taking an elk in the great Rocky Mountains of Colorado. I hunted there for the first time last year with a compound bow and though I didn’t have any shot opportunities it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. I love whitetail hunting but just not sure it can touch the greatness of a DYI elk hunt in the mountains. This year I’m going back with a good friend and we are bringing self bows! If I’m successful in killing an elk not only will it be my first elk, it will by my first self bow large game kill period. Kill or not I know it will surely be another great adventure that I’ll remember for a lifetime.
My current hunting bow is a 52# Osage that shoots 500g arrows at a bit less than 160 FPS. In my opinion it’s the best bow I’ve built to date. However, I figure with the size of elk it wouldn’t hurt to have a bow with a little more punch. My current quest is to build a low 60s# Osage bow that is as efficient as possible. I’d love it to shoot my 500g arrows at 180 FPS and reach the 200 yard mark but I’ll be quite happy with anything over 160. I definitely appreciate any guidance that can help me make this bow as efficient as possible. I am not in a hurry and I want to do this right and have a great learning experience!
Here are a few things that I think may help me improve the efficiency of this bow.
1) Build a form that can add a bit more reflex to this bow
2) Go for more of an elliptical tiller that I’ve heard can generate more speed
3) Take my time with the tiller especially the last 8 inches which I tend to rush
4) Shooting in the bow better to ensure the limbs are in synch
I hope you enjoy this build and I’m all ears if you have advice along the way. I’m sure I’m going to have a blast building it! Let’s start out by getting our blood pumping with this pic of the 296 bull my buddy killed on our hunt last year. Took us 11 hours to pack that thing out. The experience was beyond words.
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Decision 1: The Bow Layout
This is the Osage stave that I hope to transform into my efficient CO elk hunting bow. I chased the top heartwood ring and it looks solid. The stave is 72 inches long. Now it’s time to first put pencil to the wood and choose a layout that will best help me achieve my goals. I plan on having a handle and an arrow rest, which is my preference. For total length I’m thinking 66 inches for the 28 inch draw.
The rest is up for discussion. Beyond the fade I’m considering starting a little wide, maybe close to 2 inches, and continue that for about 10 inches then a gradual taper to the tips. I’m guessing that it will be good to get bend in the limbs as far out as possible as opposed to several inches of the outer limbs being non-bending.
What do you think of this design? Is this consistent with the design of the fastest most efficient bows you’ve seen? What layout do you feel maximizes speed?
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52 pounds, 500 grain arrow, 160 fps still enough to take an elk ... But hey either way can't wait to see what ya come up with for your elk hunt
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Clean looking stave, what little twist she has can be corrected as you bake in the reflex.
Would you consider something like a bendy handled bow just a bit more than double your draw length? A bow like that will work well in brushy cover and bendy handles just seem to be a bit quieter in my experience.
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Just noticed the early/late ratio. Oh my!
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Hi JW, I prefer the feel of a handle and shelf. It's good to know my deer bow will do the trick if needed. Can you please explain the early/late ratio comment mroe? Is a certain ratio better for speed? thanks man!
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Look at the butt end of your stave. See those skinny little light colored lines....that's the early wood. It is punky, soft, and has neither strength in compression nor tension. The darker bands are the late wood. There is your strength in the bow. The more early wood you have the more difficult it is to get a higher efficiency bow.
There are exceptions, but exceptions are not the rule. You got a nice stave, don't let some greedy sod like me talk you out of it! >:D
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I love a good 'built to hunt' bow! Can't wait to see how this one turns out.
-Dan
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Good looking stave! Best of luck on your hunt. Nothing like the first self bow score on big game. JW is right about that early/late ratio on the growth rings.
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If you want a shorter bow but higher weight and 28". Try using 1.5" fades and 4" bulbous handle, and make them suckers work right to the fade, no stiffys. You could easily do a 62" ntn bow that has a stiff handle and shelf. The short fades and STRAIGHT tips will give you almost 28" of limb per side. Start with 3" of reflex. Im wiping finish on a 50# plus bow just like it right now. It held plenty of reflex and is "short" compared to my 64-68" bows I typically hunt with. Ill post it in a few days, but knowing you this one will be done already...;)
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Will follow along for sure.
I also was fortunate enough to go on a diy elk hunt in colorado and know the feeling well of packing out an elk on your back 3 miles one way to the truck. My buddy was also the one who killed. I came close to dropping the string on a beauty, but not quite close enough. That was 2008 and the memories are as vivid as if it was yesterday. Good luck to you.
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I'll be watching with interest to see what you decide and how you go about it. Good luck with it!
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That piece of osage will make an elk killing bow for sure, take your time on it, hunt hard and you'll be enjoying some of the finest backstraps ever eaten. I don't feel qualified to give design advice, everyone has their own preference and as long as you execute your chosen design well it'll get er' done. I'll be watching with interest though, would love to do another elk hunt myself in the near future.
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This look is like it is going to be a fun one to follow. I'll be waiting for progress reports :)
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Wow, nice stave. I'll be watching closely and working along with a bow I'm trying to make with very similar wood and specs. My thinking was about 1 1/2" at the fades like stated above. Good luck with your hunt when that sweet wood turns into your bow.
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U could always out hooks on her ;0)
Nice stave, wish u well on ur build and hunt.
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That's from chickenhawk haint it? Ive made enough bows from that old stock to recognize its gold color. Great stuff. I think its from 94 or 96 maybe?
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Pearly, was that a good year? Can ya tell by smelling it ;D
Ur the wine guy of osage
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@JW: Thanks again man. You had me scared for a minute there. Glad to her the stave has potential.
@DGF: me too! ;)
@Gsu: thanks man, I try to obsess about the first big game kill too much. I’m just enjoying the weapon making and hunting process. When it all comes together for a kill I’m sure it will blow my mind.
@Pearl: thanks for the advice man. Your bows are sick btw. I’m looking forward to seeing the next one. Ya when I get going I crank em out fast but not this one. I plan on taking my time and learning all I can. If I get impatient I’ll just beat up some of the hickory staves I have laying around for kicks. Nice call on the wood, I got it from Chris at the classic last year!
@rps: You said it brother. Nothing compares to the experience. You can’t really fully explain it to someone who has not done it yet.
@SLIM: welcome to my journey.
@Bent: that’s good to hear for sure! If any legal elk gets in my range arrows will be flying! Antlers are just icing on the cake. I’d rather have back straps on my grill. ;)
@Matt: I’ll keep ya posted bro.
@Fred: thanks! Good luck to you as well.
@Blaf: Smells like back straps on my grill to me!
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PA, I didn't see where you said how far you are drawing the bow. At 28" draw and 60# you shouldn't have any problem hiting at 180 mark. 170 will get you 200 yards. I think if you look at some of the builds over at twin oaks and the methods they use you will have no problem hitting your goal. If you don't have a cawl I would also advise taking the one day it takes to make a good one that will last you for years. If you don't have the plans for one I can make you some plans to follow.
Just my two cents here because you said you were going for performance. Most the guys here now are using a style that I agree with 100%, the only thing I might disagree on is using the entire limb all the way to the fades bending equally. I think limbs that bend in an equal arc are shocky. I like my limbs just barely beding out of the fades and then increasing the bend to about mid limb where I start to stiffen it back up again gradually. I leave about the last 8" stiff. I don't go scary thin on my tips anymore. 3/8 tips with a narrow outer limb is still sturdy and durable and fast. One of the most importan things is keeping track of how much weight you are loosing by bending th ebow instead of remving wood. Before any excersize session on the tiller tree found out what the weight is at a very short draw like 14 or 15 " and then as you increase the dra wlength double check to make sure that weight didn't change. If it start to drop and you still have several inches to go you can always go up closer to the fades and get them working a bit more. For a 60# bow I would start off about 1/1/2" wide at the fades and go about 64" to 66" long. If you can finish with about 1" reflex your bow will likley be hitting well over 180 with a 500 grain arrow.
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Went to grandpas farm yesterday to check the trail cams and found this. I'm not the only predator in the woods. >:D So far we have 5 black bears, 5 or 6 bob cats, and some coyote. I love living in PA!
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The Layout
After carefully examining the 73'' stave I decided to use the side that enabled me to keep the biggest apparent knot in the handle/fade area and off the limb. I went with 64'' tip to tip both to help with the knot placement and because I like the idea of a slightly shorter hunting bow. I went 1 and 1/2'' at the fades as many suggested and kept that width for 15'' for now as I can always fade it in more later. Please let me know if that is less than desirable for speed.
I made a mark 7 and 1/2 inches in from the tips to mark where I want the working limb to end. I used my typical handle demensions. Next I'll sharpen the draw knife and rough this bad boy out. Also I'll be making my first bow form (cawl) when I can get to the hardware store. More on that soon!
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Looking good. Watching with interest!
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I think it was a good idea making the bow a little shorter. Even my 60 inch bow was a touch long in some of the thicker blowdown areas I hunt.
Patrick
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Thanks Arrowind!
Hi Patrick, I agree but I want a stiff handle so I'm thinking I need more working limb. This will be my shortest handle bow to date.
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No easy buckets
Forget the gym, just work down a stave without power tools!! Garage door open and a pile of snow right next to me and I'm dripping sweat. Loved every minute of it though!
Roughed a bowish looking shape out but I discovered some scary cracks on the bottom! :o They appear to go several layers deep but I'm not sure quite how far. I'll work the bow down more and see what were left with.
My question is: if the cracks are deep enough that thye don't completely go away, is there hope for the bow or do I have firewood?
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If they don't run off you should be ok, is it just the radial grain splitting or are the rings delaminating? I don't often run into splits like that inside a stave except in yew.
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Those look familiar to! Most of mine all came out as I tillered. Like Steve said, if they stay within the bow I wouldn't worry.
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I fill all cracks no matter where they are at, they cease to be a problem after a liberal dose of super glue.
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Pushing On
I reduced the stave to 722 grams or about 130ish from finished weight. The limbs are bending about 2 inches. One limb has cracks throught the limb that probably cut through 3 of the 6 growth rings. However they are all well contained inside the limb. The other limb has one crack that does run off but it is comparitively quite small maybe 1 or 2 growth rings. So I'm crossin my fingers and pushing forward!
I'm heading to Lowes shortly to get a 2x6 adn 2x4 to make a form out of. I'm basically going to follow the advice on Gary Davis's video.I plan on rounding the 2x4 into the shape I want and nailing it to the 2x6. Maybe set to give a 66'' bow 3'' of bend.
At what point do I super glue the cracks, now?
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That crack that's running out bugs me... How thick are your limbs now?
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The run out crack is definitely a concern. I've made em with similar cracks. Some held, some didn't. If it were me, I would lightly WARM the wood and apply as much thin superglue as it will soak up. I stress warm, because if you get it hot it will expand the crack. Glue it now, and keep glueing it as you expose the crack more. Warming it up will help the glue penetrate, but it probably won't completely fill the crack. Its looking pretty nice so far! Josh
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I have been using Loc Tite super glue for similar cracks. Tap the side of your bow blank with something light(file handle, socket wrench, screwdriver) as you add the glue to help the air bubbles come to the surface. Keep adding glue until you have a puddle of glue on the surface, you are going to need a lot of glue.
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Looking good PA hunter.
I just finished one that looks just like that with the wind checks in it. Unbacked and it is shooting great. And it really looks cool with the long checks in it.
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@donald: Ya me to. I’ll guess mid limb is 10/16ths.
@GunDoc: thanks man I’ll definitely warm and glue it up. I concerned because I need to heat treat it on the form to put in reflex first. Otherwise the superglue will burn my eyes out. I guess the risk of making the cracks bigger is one I have to take. :-\
@Eric: tap, tap, tap it in! Great tip, will do!
@Bob: Hey buddy, good to hear! Lookin cool is always a bonus! ;)
thanks guys!
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Been watching,hope the cracks work out,filled with glue and no run off they should be fine. 2 inches at the fads to mid limb/64 n-n it will be a thin baby
to get it down to 60@28. if it is good dence Osage as it apperes to be,Good luck and looking forward to seeing the outcome. I'm with Steve on bending at the fads,that is usuall the last place I get working and not working to much. ;) :)
Pappy
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Thanks Pappy, I'll give it a go!
Budiling my first bow form
I want to kick myself for not doing this two years ago. it's so easy! I got a 2x4 and 2x6 at 66''. On the 2x4 I marked a center line and a mark every 5.5 inches marking 12 equal sections. ON the ends I marked 6 marks in 1/2'' increments form the top (the pic has 12 but I only used every other one). Then I placed a ruler from the center mark at the top to the first of 6 marks on the end and drew a line from the center mark to the first 1/12 line toward that end. Then I put the ruler from where that line ends (5.5 inches from the center line) and moved the other end down one mark on the end. This creates a curve that increases toward the ends. I continue this until I reach the end of the board. Gary Davis describes this technique in his video better than I am. It's quite fast easy. I used a circular saw to rough it out and then a farriers rasp to nicely finish and round it off. Probably took 30 minutes total!
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Heatin it up
I decided to heat treat this bow even with the risk of the cracks. If it does bust it will still be a good learning experience for the next one. The form is setup to provide up to 3'' of reflex. I clamped the bow down onto the form and coated it with some olive oil. I used a heat gun over the back and side of 6'' sections until it was very hot to touch.
Once done I added super glue liberally to the many cracks as i tapped the bow with a tool. I'll continue to add glue to the cracks as needed throughout tillering.
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Lookin good buddy...Looks like I need to get started on mine.Can't let you be the only guy wonderin" around them CO. mountains with a new bow..lol
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@Bill: For sure brother! You can always use the osage stave you left with me last year after the classic. ;) You know those elk can't resist a shiny new yellow bow! :o
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It was about a month ago that I decided to set my compound on the shelf and dedicate to my dream of big game hunting with my self bows. And when I started practicing I was horrible, really horrible. But I've practiced consistantly and smartly since and tonight I had a great day at the range! I've seen signifigant improvement at the range and I'm quickly approaching my traditional shooting friends scores! I'm loving the confidence that's coming wiht it! I can't wait to hopefully have that elk step out within 30 and do what I know how to do...
Below is a pic of my daughter helping me at the range. She is my angel and hopefully future hunting partner. The heated bow cooled and I took it off the form and reduced it down signifigantly to allow for a few inches of bend. There is currently about 1 and 3/4 inch of reflex. The best news is the crack that ran off the side seems to have gone away. I have renewed hope for this bow!!
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Tillering for Speed
My primary goal with this bow is to learn how to build faster bows. I've read your comments on this post and have searched the PA site for all speed/efficiency related posts that I could find. It seems that the bow taking set is the enemy of speed. The bow bending mid limb will maximize speed up to the point where it takes set because not enough limb is working. Below are some tips I picked out that may help me achieve quicker bows.
• Don't rush bracing the bow.
• Don't leave drawn for longer than necessary while tillering (I think using the tiller tree more than the tiller stick may help with this)
• Measure set: After wood is removed measure the DW at the current DL. Drawl several times to an additional inch and re-measure the set at the original DL to see if any poundage was lost. I'm not sure how accurate my hand scale is but I'm going to try to do this once the bow is bending 14 inches or so.
• Have the most bend in mid limb
• Keep outer 7 or 8'' stiff
Please let me know if you have any corrections or tips to make this bow as efficient as possible.
Thanks!
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Good news on that crack going away, the reflex looks good and so does your thickness taper. Looks like your tracking a good bow. Cute kiddo too, you got a bow for her yet?
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Sounds good BB! Of course Ava has a bow. ;) It's that kids bear bow but I made primitive arrows with spounges glued to the front for her. She's making daddy proud!
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tillering on
I progressed from the drawl knife to my farriers rasp to get the bow into the approximate dimensions I want. Then I moved to a shave to smooth it out and continue more causiously. On the tiller tree I am bending it about 11 inches from the starting position now which puts it at a little over 40# there. So far no reflex has been lost. My current game plan is to continue doing this until I get several inches past brace height and the tiller it looks good before bracing.
How does the tiller look so far? Ultimately I'd like to see the most bend in mid limb to maximize speed.
Now I'm off to pick up my little hunter from preschool!
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That looks pretty good, personally I would get the middle third working a bit more, but I don't think there's anything wrong with what you've got goin there.
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Wow I forgot about that stave..Maybe I'll get started back on it at the Classic this year....
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Rob, just so you don't come in light using the long string. The draw weight doesn't have much to do with how far you are bending the bow as much as it does the inches it shows you are drawing. If your sting is down around the 24" mark for example it would read not too much different if you braced the bow even though it would be bent a lot more.
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Rob, I'm watching closely as well, not because I have any input to give but rather to learn before I try one of those. also, I want to keep an eye on what my fellow keystone guys are cookin with! Looking good...
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@KillerD: yep, I'm paying more attention to the middle to get the bend going there. Hopefully it will round out nicely in the next few inches. thanks!
@Steve: will do. I've experienced that before where I go from long string to brace to be sprised how how the DW is. I'm confident I have a good amount more to loose here though. As the tiller progresses you'll have to let me know how I'm acheiving the eliptical tiller you speak of. thanks man!
Below is a pic of the current tiller at 13 inches pull from resting. It's 47# at the pull. It lost no DW but did lose 1/16 on the reflex.
Now rather than running through the rockies with a bright yellow glow stick I decided to back the bow with a cloth snakeskin pattern I recently bought. Looks cool wet hopefully it looks as good dry. I wet it first, ring it out, coat the bow with TB II and let it get tacky, then add a bunch of glue and put the cloth on, and clamp it down for good measure. I'll rasp off the edges tomorrow. And there you go, snakeskin looking back for abotu $2!
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@TBone: Hey man, good to have a keystone brother watching. Feel free to ask about anything I don't sufficiently explain. or hell stop by Pittsburgh and we'll build some bows! ;)
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I would love to someday! Does Soergel's still have the best ice cream in town?
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I've been ther plenth but never tried the ice cream. I'll have to give it a go with my little girl this week! :laugh:
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I used to go there all the time as a child. I lived in Wexford for 5 years before moving to eastern PA and starting junior high. I prefer it out there honestly.
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The cloth is thin but looks good on the bow! Little touches like that tend to give me motivation. They make the bow more personal as they become part of my journey.
When to draw the bow?
The bow is down below 600g and getting close to the finished weight. The long string hangs to 12'' before pulling and pulls to 25'' currently at 49#. So there are 13'' total I"m pulling the string. The The bow is at a point I would typically brace it. However I've read it can be bad to brace a bow before it's ready; it can take a lot of set. I'm not noticing any loss of poundage pulling to this point but I did loose another 1/16 of reflex. So my question is how do you know when to brace the bow? Is it ok to do it now or shold I try to tiller it a few more inches first? Of course any tiller advice is very welcome as well! thanks!
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U should be good to brace. Start with low brace, couple inches. And get it bending more and then increase.
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If the string is hanging down 12" and the bow is pulling 49# it will still be about 49 or 50# if you brace it and pull it to 25". Has nothing to do with how far you are bending the bow, the string angle changes as you draw it and thats why the scale reads heavier. I would brace it now if you want 60# cause you are very close and might not make it.
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Good job with the cloth snake skin. That looks like the same stuff I used on my last bow build.
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Ok, let's string it up! 8) My draw is almost 28'' and I know how much my bows usually bend, so I'm fairly confident I didn't miss the 60# mark but we'll see where we are at tomorrow once I brace her. This approach is a little different in how I normally tiller. It's almost as though you are trying to remove as much wood as possible without bending it much but ensuring you leave enough to work with and correct issues. I guess bending the bow too hard too early greatly increases the risk of taking set and losing speed. Makes sense to me. Would you guys agree?
First I decided to saw off two pieces of antler to make some tip overlyas. I like to put them in a vice and shape them with a rasp as much as possible prior to gluing them on the bow. It's too easy to knick up the bow once on there. I add liberal amounts of TB II and calmp em down overnight. I never put them over material before but I don't see why it should affect it much and it should give a cleaner result. I'll try and trust my glue.
Tonight I have a 3D shoot. Let's see if I can creap closer to the fiberglass guys. It's only a matter of time till I catch up!
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Good job with the cloth snake skin. That looks like the same stuff I used on my last bow build.
Thanks! You're bow gave me the idea. I searched for the pattern online. Can't beat the price! Better than $30 per bow from 3 Rivers! :o ;)
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Where did You find the cloth snake skin? Looks like that smelly one I used from Florida on My bow. Even with 4 coats of Poly, I can still smell reptile...LOL..
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Where did You find the cloth snake skin? Looks like that smelly one I used from Florida on My bow. Even with 4 coats of Poly, I can still smell reptile...LOL..
Well I don't want to violate the rules with a link but if you search for "safari snakeskin cloth" you will find it online. On a popular fabric site it's currently on sale for $6.44 a yard! Order 2 yards and that's 11 or 12 bows.
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>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\ :) ;)
Well Badger you were wright and I was wrong, imagine that. ;) Once I braced that bow it was at a bit over 50#! And one side was much weaker than the other. So I unbraced it and took wood from the stiffer side to even it out. However even that brief brace and test robbed the bow of a lot of reflex and speed I'm sure. :( I just went too far with just the tiller tree and not bracing the bow as I'm used to.
This is a new tiller shape I was going for. 8'' at the tips are stiff and the middle is bending a lot but the fades look quite stiff. I think I overdid it. What do you think about the tiller? It freaks me out because I'm used to more bend in the fades but I was tryign something new. Please feel free to tear it apart, I want to learn as much as possible.
Now it looks like the bow is going to end up in the mid to high 40s so I probably won't take drastic measures before finishing it up. But I will finish it up right.
Another question I have is how do you shoot a bow in? Do you start when it is at full draw or befoer that in the tillering process? What all are you looking for; for example is limb timing part of it and how can that be judged? I'd really like to learn more about this.
I also added a handle. I put my hand in my shooting position and outline the top of my finger and thumb. Then I rasp out the hand groove until it feels good. Next I cut a shelf with a hacksaw blade every 1mm adn then you insert the blade and bend it and they all pop out, kinda neat. last I finsh it off with a lighter rasp.
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wow, I'm looking at the last pic of the bow bending ont he tiller tree before I braced it. It just does not show the drastic limb imbalance that I saw when I first braced it. I wonder if that is just from the difference of the string position from the leather cups to actual nocks.
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I took some shavings from the fades and used a rasp to take the stiff outter thirds to make them lighter but still stiff. Then I gave it a rest to start digging into the bark of a brand new old osage stave. :) Maybe this will make a fine bow to give away, one of my favorite things to do in this hobby.
In these trials I have some potentially very good news! I made my first sinew backed osage last year and a month after making it ended up at 55# and shot about 160 FPS. However I had a 52#er that shot the same so I've been using that. After 6 months of drying I tested the bow and it's 64# @ 28!! I signifigantly lightened the outter thirds and lost no poundage. I can't wait to flight test this gal and see where she comes in. next weekend I should be able to do that. I may have an elk hunter after all! ;D :D Some pics of this bow are below.
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Great, you needed some good news.
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I know this may run counter to what some say, but stringing them early will help eliminate the "under weight" problem. I will get my short string on one as early as I can. I want it floor tillered well so there are no weak spots, and I want the two limbs close to each other in weight. I then check it with the long string to make sure it's close. If so I string it with 0" brace height. Basically just a taught string with some pressure applied. I pull it a couple of inches and look at the tiller. Address the stiff areas and check it again. When it looks good, I check the weight. (just at a few inches). I'm typically very heavy at this point, but I know where I'm at. I'll then cinch it up a little tighter, maybe 1-2 inches and check it again. It's been my experience that the set comes from over stressing a limb in some way, either a hingey spot pulled to far, or simply drawing one too far too early. I don't do either of these things. Little steps an inch or two at a time. A lot of wood still comes off the belly at this point and if the limbs are even, any compressed wood ends up on the floor. I wont say you cant miss weight doing it this way, as some trouble spots can still rear their ugly head later, but it will greatly increase the likelihood of hitting what you are shooting for.
I would prefer that I could floor tiller, gauge it correctly, string it and it's near perfect, but I've missed far too many doing that, especially early on in my bow making. Truth is, I now can gauge it better at floor tiller and might not start at 0 inches. Might start at 3 or 4 inches and still be heavy when I brace it. I get them floor tillered evenly and get a string on it early.
Been following from the start. I like what you've done!
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I personally don't like a long string. I know a lot of guys are successful with it so I won't say it is wrong to use one. But I also like to brace them heavy. At least 10# heavy at first brace 15 is not a problem. Get them nice and even at floor tiller, low brace, even them up some more and then proceed.
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Thank you! That makes sense guys. I think my biggest flaw in the past is bracing bow too much. I'm a computer guy and can be very analytical. I love to draw the bow on a tiller stick and run a 6'' piece of wood along the belly to carefully evaluate it. As if I'm looking for some formula for a perfect bow and If I just try harder I'll get this one right. But I think my trying, and keeping the bow drawn/braced even at a fairly high weight was doing more damage than I realized.
I like the idea of starting with a 0'' brace and working it out. In fact I remember Blackhawk doing that exact thing in his garage years ago when I was brand new at this. Many of the little things I saw him do come back to me in "ah ha" moments where they finally make sense. ;)
At the same time I'll try to get the bow down to 10-15# over with floor tillering and long string. I think I was bracing it at much higher than that in the past.
I missed the target weight by a good amount but this was a great learning experience which is more important than any one finished bow! Thanks again for all the input!!
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You still may have a good shooter there, ballance out the limbs and try not to pull it very far until the limbs are ballanced. Then put the bow in a cawl reflexing it into a nice r/d shape without the deflex. Maybe put in 3 1/2" reflex and heat treat the limbs. Slowly tiller it back out, you should need too much. It might feel heavy after heat treating but I would just go ahead and brace it.
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I don't use a long string much either, I just use it to start out with to make sure my limbs are somewhat even and to see if theres any major hinges
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I took some shavings from the fades and used a rasp to take the stiff outter thirds to make them lighter but still stiff. Then I gave it a rest to start digging into the bark of a brand new old osage stave. :) Maybe this will make a fine bow to give away, one of my favorite things to do in this hobby.
In these trials I have some potentially very good news! I made my first sinew backed osage last year and a month after making it ended up at 55# and shot about 160 FPS. However I had a 52#er that shot the same so I've been using that. After 6 months of drying I tested the bow and it's 64# @ 28!! I signifigantly lightened the outter thirds and lost no poundage. I can't wait to flight test this gal and see where she comes in. next weekend I should be able to do that. I may have an elk hunter after all! ;D :D Some pics of this bow are below.
Even your current build is perfectly fine for elk. One thing I have noticed on previous hunts is that after carrying a heavy pack my shoulders get beat down and I am not as accurate with heavy bows. Just something to think about.
Patrick
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not a long string fan myself, I get my long string so there is zero slack in it and get to brace as soon as possible, like badger said you probably still have a elk killer there, remember a razor sharp head and shot placement are the key ;)
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@Steve: Thanks for the tips man. I decided to take the tips shorter as well.
@Killerd: Sounds like I’m should give floor tillering some more TLC ;)
@Patrick: Thanks man, that’s good to hear! I like my 52#er shooting a bit under 160 FPS but I would just feel so much more comfortable with something a tad faster. I can see the difference between that and the fiberglass traditional bows at the range and it messes with your mind. I should have 2 solid shooters already. I’ll have some fun with this one now and see if I get lucky and end up with a shooter!
@bubby: “a razor sharp head and shot placement are the key” I’m with you 100% on that brother. I’ve been working hard on my shooting for the past 2 months. Got a 200 on the 30 target indoor 3D course last time! The targets go to 34 yards, didn’t miss a single one! And best of all I feel that I still have a ton of room to improve. I’ll see how I shoot with the 64#er. If accuracy suffers much I won’t hesitate to go lower. My back is very strong though so I think I may be ok. Thanks for the tips!
A learning experience is much more valuable than any single bow so I decided to take this journey a bit further; so hold on to your seats! ;) First I made another form that should give several inches of reflex to the static tips. Then I cut 2’’ from both ends to up the poundage a good chunk. Now it’s a party!
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This type of bend is new for me but exciting! It's late so I'll string her up tomorrow and see where that takes me. :)
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Now were talking!!!!! Hell yeah....glad ya bent the statics in buddy...that stave def has it in it ;)
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Like the statics . That bow is looking sweet. I hope you get a great shooter out of it.
I tried heating and bending the tip with hot air but ended up crushing the grain . I will steam next time. Plus I tried to bend on a small area of the tips . Live and learn.
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Based on your last tiller pic and with the shortened length and recurves added, I would guess that it is going to be doing alot of its bending mid-limb. I have seen some osage that can handle that and a lot of it depends on your front profile. Even if it takes some set mid-limb, you will still have a shooter. Perosnally, I would be prepared to get the fades moving just a little more. ...or sinew those midlimbs for a rocket launcher. >:D
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Those curves should give it a kick in the pants.
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I think your onto something there Rob, looking good with the statics. This one could end up putting alot of zip behind an arrow. Look forward to seeing more. :)
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Thanks everyone, I'm really jazzed! Hope she holds up...
I've been checking the weight at 20'' right after i string her up and then again after all the drawling/tiller checking. I've registered a total of maybe 4# lost to set doing this so far. Kinda makes you sad when the pounds/speed slip away from set. :(
She is at 51# @ 23 and there is 4.5'' left until my target DLof 27.5. The tiller is +.2 on the top limb at brace. So now my goal is to get her to my full draw and maintain as much weight as possible without sending splinters flying across my workshop. :o With the short wroking limb I definitely am asking more of the wood than I typically do.
Ok bowmasters, do you recommend taking off more wood before drawling more or working the draw back some more now? The plan is approaching the landing strip, let's guide her in for a smooth landing! ;) :P
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That is looking good to me. At this stage, I finish tillering with the bow in hand and checking the tiller in a big mirror or having a bowyer friend watch. Only remove wood if you see any stiff areas, or if you are at your target draw weight before your target draw length. After marking apparent stiff spots with a pencil. Unbrace it and check the unbraced profile through that area before removing wood. This is where it is easy to get excited and hurry it up, but it is here you need to really slow down and dial it in. Look out CO elk! :)
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@CMB: that sounds like great advice! I'm guilty of speeding through the last several inches. IN my defense I just love shooting! ;)
Here is a draw pic at maybe 24 or 25''.
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I slowly worked it out inch by inch with the following algorithm.
1) measure DW
2) bend bow 20+ times to new DL and check tiller -This is one heck of a workout on a 60#er! :( ;)
3) take a pic / evaluate
4) pencil corrections onto bow
5) check brace height tiller gaps (ensure +.3 ish more on upper limb)
6) measure DW and see if much was lost
7) make corrections to bow causiously
8) repeat...
Result is 60# @ 27.5, 60'' tip to tip!! :D :) :laugh: >:D :D :) :laugh: >:D :D :) :laugh: >:D :D :) :laugh: >:D :D :) :laugh: >:D ;)
And I don't intend on drawing it past 27.5, that poor wood. :) In sanding and set I"m sure I'll loose a little of that but it should be close to 60. I'll still be nervous until I get a lot more arrows through it. I'll post some pics after it's all done. Cross your fingers it holds up. I think the poundage is fine, well maybe not for a 60 arrow shoot but for killing an elk, I think my form will hold true!
Thanks so much for all your help, this has been a great learning experience!!!! It's given me 100 other ideas I'd like to try and try to improve on!! This stuff is addicting!
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That looks pretty sweet. Glad you made a shooter out of it. Be sure and post that elk!
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Great save!! The bow looks fantastic and you broke it in right.
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I love osage...n there's proof right there in that pudding ;)
Hey rob u should build the handle up with some cork and get the handle some more meat and rounded/bulboused more.....its quick n easy peasy to do...I have plenty if ya want some
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That bow is looking sweet! Great job.
Patrick
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@Slimbob: haha you know I will. I know my odds are low given my 30 yard max 20 perfered range. And I'm not trying to wound an animal. I embrace the adventure and time in the woods more than anything. Last time I spent 2 hours climing a mountain through thick cover, when I got to the top the trees cleared and I had a 30 mile view across mountain tops with the sun shining. That may be my fondest memory of the last trip. Getting that elk would be nice though! ;)
@Steve: thanks man, and thanks again for the tips. I took a lot away from this one.
@Chris: man I'm starting to love osage as well. Don't think anything else can quite touch it. I actually perfer a sleek handle. I made them all sizes and though the big ones look cool, I like the feel of the little ones. I'll pimp it out some with some color, you'll see. ;) 8)
@Patrick: thanks bro, hopefully the final tiller looks even better. I'll get it up soon.
pic is of me ontop a mountain in CO. Ya, I stripped down and caught some rays. What else are you supposed to to atop a mountin? ;D
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Thanks again to everyone who came along on this great joureny! It's been a blast! I sincerely appreciate your attention and advice! I'll still be adding several coats of tru-oil and an arrow plate but I wanted to get some pics up here. The draw feels great and it feels like it's flinging arrows like a champ! I can't wait to flight test and see where she comes in.
This and my newly found sinew backed 61# bow look like excellent options for elk hunting this September in Colorado. And I'm shooting them all better than ever! Maybe I'll break her in soon chasing some gobblers!
On to the next adventure!
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Some pics of the back.
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Nice job. It turned out great.
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Final Stats: 60# @ 27.5 and 60'' tip to tip!
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Really? 500g? 160fps?
Gr or gram?
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That looks like a stunner and a well fought battle.
Nice bow 8)
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@osage outlaw: thanks much man!
@leehongyi: Oh ya grams. I basically shoot my other bows out of it; she's a beast! :P :laugh:
@dwardo: thanks I appreciate it!
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Nice looking bow!
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I have been watching from the start. Tha is one nice bow, I want one like that!
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Do you plan to put Tip Overlays back on it? ...or let the Osage do the work.
OneBow
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@Gsulfridge: thank you very much!
@scottski: Glad to have you along for the ride! Thanks, I've always wanted one like that too. ;)
@Onebowoner: No the tips are thick enough to support it now. One less thing to go wrong in the field.
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turned out nice PA good luck with it hunting
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That one turned out great man. It sure was fun to see it along the way. Thanks for including all of us. I sure hope you make meat with that stick. Good luck :)
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@buddy: thanks man, can't wait to take it to the woods!
@IdahoMatt: thanks, I appreciate it! I'm feeling great about my chances this year! Good luck to you too!
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@osage outlaw: thanks much man!
@leehongyi: Oh ya grams. I basically shoot my other bows out of it; she's a beast! :P :laugh:
@dwardo: thanks I appreciate it!
I cannot believe this figure. maybe you confused gram and grain. according to the formula of kinetic energy, the energy equals 1/2mv^2. a 500 grams arrow is 0.5kg. 160FPS is roughly equivalent to 49m/s. that means your 50+ lbs osage bow shooted an arrow with 600 J energy! and we should notice that the muzzle energy of glock 18 pistol is only 530 J！
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Has to be 500 grains, 500 grams would be a 1.1 pound arrow, unless you are shooting that from a Roman Ballista you will not achieve 160 fps.
Grady
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Funny how one little letter can cause so much trouble! ;D :P Yes I meant grains (gr not g).
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I am a rookie having only made 7 Osage selfbows to date.
Best shooter being 63" NTN, 58#@28". Pyramid style 1-3/4" at fades with a straight taped to 1/2" at tips. Q
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I am still a rookie have only made 7 Osage selfbows.
One one my best shooters is a pyramid style 63" NTN, 58#@28".
It is 1-5/8 at the fades with a straight taper to 1/2" at the tips.
Have never checked speed but I shoot lots of 3D against recurve
and laminated longbows with no problem.
I have been leaving last 6-8" of the outer limb stiff to prevent possible
Whip tip which could rob power and cast.