Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: Scallorn on January 25, 2014, 03:51:02 pm

Title: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 25, 2014, 03:51:02 pm
I'm thinking about building a dugout canoe in the traditional native American style. I live in east Texas, so I have access to plenty of large pine trees. Has anyone ever built anything like this? I found several early engravings on the web that explain what they looked like, and the process of building them. If you have built one, please post pic's and comments on the process.
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 25, 2014, 03:53:24 pm
resizing these pic's is allot of trouble. ::)
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 25, 2014, 03:54:51 pm
...
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: PrimitiveTim on January 25, 2014, 04:47:42 pm
I want to build one so bad!  What kind of wood are looking at using?
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Mohawk13 on January 25, 2014, 04:49:16 pm
I don't have any pictures of the one we built in the late 70's, but I can tell you burning out the log, getting the sides and floor thin enough, and getting the canoe balanced so it floats upright, is a challenge that will develop an expanded profanity vocabulary and a few grey hairs. Once completed and sealed, and made to float upright, it is a rewarding experience. The one we made can be viewed at the St. Regis Cultural Center in Oka. Good luck. Make sure to seal the wood well or it will crack on you. Then you will find out how well moss and pine pitch seal cracks in canoes....LOL
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 25, 2014, 05:14:50 pm
I'm planning on using pine. If I keep it in the shade, i thought the natural resin in the log would seal it well enough. I have no evperience though, so i'm not sure...
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: nclonghunter on January 26, 2014, 10:44:15 am
I read somewhere that once you get close to the bottom drill a series of one inch holes to judge you wall thickness. Once finished you plug the holes with wood plugs and cut them off flush. Never built one but would also like to. Good Luck
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: mullet on January 26, 2014, 08:26:04 pm
Most of them found in Florida were made out of pine. There is four on the bottom of the lake in town here and another in a lake right outside of town.
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Zuma on January 26, 2014, 09:31:03 pm
Humm, I would have thought cypress. Oh well. There is a lake in NC that produced 30 or so dug outs.
I will see if there is a link somewhere.
I know I could make a crude one in 2 days or 3  days with a chain saw lol
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Zuma on January 26, 2014, 10:24:20 pm
trees for dugout canoes in NC lake
The image is at:
online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405274870329660457600559...

Can't get the blue link but just search the top sentence.
Good luck, Zuma
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 27, 2014, 12:32:38 am
Unfortunately I'm too far north for cypress trees. but pine is common around here. The biggest problem for me is figuring out how to move a log that size back to my house. I had a great idea for a cheap sealant when the boat is finished. Cooking Oil!!! I'm going to buy a few big jugs of it and paint it on with a brush. :)
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 27, 2014, 12:33:27 am
BTW, Any pic's would still be nice.
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Zuma on January 27, 2014, 01:07:04 am
I did poor man pulp wood to survive when I first went to live in VA.
If I could get my van arse end to the log I would wedge it up above the floor board.
Then peel backwards. Give the log a shove and pungy cord the doors.
My 360 1 ton Dodge worked great. With my six cylinder Chevy it could take two tries sometimes.
Park and block a utility trailer. Use a piece of plywood to cover the metal webbing of the ramp
Hammer a large eye bolt in the center of the end cut. Attach rope, cable or chain and pull up onto trailer wirh truck, tractor, 4 wheeler or wench.
Now, go get ya a log.
Zuma
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 27, 2014, 01:26:53 am
thanks for the advise Zuma! That sounds great. I found a tree within walking distance of my house, I'm thinking something around 25-30 ft though. I'll probably end up using a tractor and a flatbed trailer.  ;D
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Mohawk13 on January 27, 2014, 01:51:48 am
You are going to need a small Navy or a strong dollie to move that canoe. 25-30 feet, even hollowed out will tip the scales close to 500 LBS...Might want to start small and work your way up. How many people are going to be helping?
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: bubbles on January 27, 2014, 02:26:09 am
The process is described in one of the "naked in the wilderness books" I think. Can't remember if its the first or 2nd.
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: lostarrow on January 27, 2014, 03:23:02 am
Unfortunately I'm too far north for cypress trees. but pine is common around here. The biggest problem for me is figuring out how to move a log that size back to my house. I had a great idea for a cheap sealant when the boat is finished. Cooking Oil!!! I'm going to buy a few big jugs of it and paint it on with a brush. :)

 The cooking oil will likely go rancid and start to smell quite bad. Makes a very good bait for bears however! ;) I'm not sure if you have a problem with bears where you are, but I've seen them rip the  boards off of a wood shed wall to get the used cooking oil  inside.( city man moved to the country,neighbour of my folks).  I'm just passing on some info , of course .

   I've also seen where holes were drilled from the outside after it was shaped. The holes were small  3/8" or smaller ,strategically placed and they were plugged with coloured pegs of precisely the length that corresponded with the wall thickness desired,+ a little for finish shaping. Something like walnut would contrast well with pine.  When you  are shaping the inside , and come to the peg, you know exactly how thick the wood is. Make sure you keep it in the shade to slow the drying. Cracking will be your worst enemy. Seal the ends right away.

Good luck with the canoe.!
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: NeolithicMan on January 27, 2014, 10:04:37 am
On a documentary call "Happy People" a master boat builder hollows out a log and heat bends it into a sweet shape. cant find it right now but it is WICKED kool!
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Zuma on January 27, 2014, 10:24:18 am
You are going to need a small Navy or a strong dollie to move that canoe. 25-30 feet, even hollowed out will tip the scales close to 500 LBS...Might want to start small and work your way up. How many people are going to be helping?
I am with Mohawk. !6 feet perhaps, add outriggers untill you get the hang of it.
Convection (wind is not good for drying). You may want to consider covering the canoe with a tarp with buckets of water under the tarp also. Slow dry. The hole drilling may help with cracking and provide space for the wood to shrink into.?
I wonder if fire hardining the interior helps cure the wood?
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 27, 2014, 11:51:42 am
I might cut it down to about 20-25. I will have a group of five that will all want to be in the canoe with me, so I'm sure all 5 of us could lift it. and i want it to be long enough that all five can sit in it and it still float. i guess cooking oil is out. what would y'all recommend for finish? Btw, the depth peg idea is awesome! I would have never figured something like that out ;D
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: RBLusthaus on January 27, 2014, 01:24:11 pm
If my memory serves, there is a kind of build along for a dug out canoe posted a few years back on the wooden canoe heritage association site.  I am sure you could find it easy - - wcha.org.

Good luck with a large project - - and make sure you go slow and protect them elbows from tennis elbow........ and be sure to count your toes both before and after the adz hollowing sessions . . . . .

Russ
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: lostarrow on January 27, 2014, 02:03:12 pm
 Had my curiosity piqued so I looked on Youtube. Lots of vids from around the world. lots of different techniques.Looks a lot like bowbuilding ,in the sense that after a whole lot of work ,you could get screwed in the end  with one false move or an uncooperative piece of wood.
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Mohawk13 on January 27, 2014, 02:20:24 pm
Yeup. Well stated. Spent 6 months helping some friends from the Squaxim Nation build a 50 foot cedar sea going canoe. After hundreds of hours of work, decoration, blessing....It rolled over and sank. This even after float testing it and "tillering" the hull...

On a Side note, may want to try Thompson's Wood Sealer...I hear tell it works wonders on waterproofing wood canoes...(Hint) 8)
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: mullet on January 27, 2014, 03:27:43 pm
My understanding is you don't need to seal it if you are using pine. The resin keeps it sealed and if you burn the center out like most of them were done it helps the resin get into the pores better.
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Scallorn on January 27, 2014, 05:23:50 pm
That's what I was thinking Mullet. Even in the winter time you can break a pine tree and watch the resin ooze out. I think it should be sealed fine. I plan  on building it with a flat bottom that's slightly thicker than the sides. This way it's heavier on the bottom and should float upright in the water. Thank you RBLusthaus for bringing up the tutorial.
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Mohawk13 on January 27, 2014, 11:58:40 pm
Ounce of Prevention/ Pound of Cure.....Consider sealing it..Heck even put another coat of pitch and bees wax if You are so inclined....Works wonders....Keep the weight in the bottom of the canoe, gives it spine keeps it upright. Keep the sides 3/4-1"....and don't be drilling holes in it to check thickness, use calipers or a measuring string/stick...Why put a hole in a boat that can wind up being a leak or an issue later on....
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: bubbles on January 28, 2014, 01:26:15 am
Could seal with pine or birch tar, isn't that what they used to seal ships with?
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: seminolewind on January 28, 2014, 09:12:17 am
Theres a show on Netflix also on Youtube called "The Happy People of The Taiga" its about trappers in the expanse of the eastern Russian wilderness. There is a part on there where the native people build a dugout canoe but have some really interesting methods of doing it. These are short dugouts that are hollowed out from a narrower opening on the top of the log. Once it is completely hollowed out they flip it over on sticks and heat it up from underneath with a fire allowing them to bend out the sides with heat. Really cool method...FYI the whole show is amazing !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvrNqyX7XPQ
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Zuma on January 30, 2014, 11:35:17 am
Just watched the vid seminole. That was awesome. I like the cow recycling and the kitty.
The pups couldn't have been of much help hunting? Maybe bait. lol
Thanks for posting
Zuma
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Pat B on January 30, 2014, 04:31:17 pm
Cool video, Elijah. Those guys sure did make that boat thin.
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: nclonghunter on January 30, 2014, 06:37:35 pm
A movie on NETFLEX called "Happy People a year in Taiga" has a short part on building a wood canoe. It is also interesting .
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: RBLusthaus on January 30, 2014, 07:13:21 pm
You got me thinking about dugouts, so I found this video while google-ing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpkp1TZSNhs

Enjoy, I know I did. 

Russ
Title: Re: Thinking about a canoe
Post by: Zuma on January 30, 2014, 11:48:21 pm
Another great video,
We all do it. We have a log or piece of rock and picture what is in there that we want.
Instant  Larry the cable guy, get er done.
But I ask you, Could Larry, you or me invent a flu flu arrow? LOL
Great thread.
Zuma