Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: IdahoMatt on January 22, 2014, 04:49:07 pm

Title: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 22, 2014, 04:49:07 pm
I have been wondering about when to cut some more staves.  I have a spot for mt. Maple and for some juniper.  Just wondering if I should wait till summer or should I go for it.  I currently have some BL and ash but that's about it.  I have a couple of shorter pieces of mt. Maple but don't have the balls to try a shorty yet ::).
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: TacticalFate on January 22, 2014, 04:53:45 pm
It's quite a bit easier to get the bark off in the summer, but its really not that much work to get it off in the winter right after you cut it. I've debarked winter cut ash and hophornbeam, and it's really not that bad. I think it really depends when you can get to it and whether you want the wood now or later.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 22, 2014, 04:55:03 pm
Good point.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: Gordon on January 22, 2014, 04:55:24 pm
I've cut vine maple and hazelnut in the winter. I've had no problems making bows from the wood, but it is a pain to remove the bark when you harvest the wood in winter.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 22, 2014, 04:59:08 pm
Do you think juniper would be as tough?
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: Joec123able on January 22, 2014, 05:49:57 pm
If you have patience unlike me then you could wait til summer but then it will be even longer waiting for it to season so I'd just cut it now to get ahead on seasoning the bark isn't that difficult to get off
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: Del the cat on January 22, 2014, 06:03:55 pm
I always cut in the winter...
I think it's kinder on the tree, which is surely a prime concern.
Del
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: PatM on January 22, 2014, 06:10:45 pm
I only cut in the non-growing season. Less chance of fungus or mildew damaging the wood. You can still get the bark off pretty easily in the winter if you don't let it dry in place.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: PrimitiveTim on January 22, 2014, 06:19:58 pm
I cut in late spring and summer and the bark peels right off and you don't have to fool with tools or anything like that.  It's worth the wait. 

You can still get the bark off pretty easily in the winter if you don't let it dry in place.
  I have not had that experience.  Are you talking about  getting it off with a draw knife or something? 
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: Scallorn on January 22, 2014, 06:30:13 pm
Sorry, but I'm going to hijack this thread for a second.
What is the best way to debark a stave if you don't have a drawknife?
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: Don Case on January 22, 2014, 06:32:47 pm
Short answer, do both. Get a few staves now. They will tell you how tough they are to peel. They will also be seasoning from now and will be ready to work by the time spring comes around. Then get some more that are easier to peel.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: mwosborn on January 22, 2014, 07:20:59 pm
I was always told to get wood whenever you had the chance!   But like many others have said once the sap is up the bark sure does come off easier.  The species I have done - ash - hackberry -  elm the bark peels off like an orange - sometimes in one big piece.   You can start it with a screw driver.  I have also cut some in the winter and it takes a little more effort but still not too bad - maybe 15-30 minutes for a stave.

As far as juniper - I have only done erc and it really made no difference on how the bark came off.  For me it did not peel off like the others.  Both winter and growing season harvest took a little work to get the bark and cambium layer off down to sap wood.  Freshly exposed erc sapwood is a yellow color.

Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: TacticalFate on January 22, 2014, 07:33:11 pm
I use the back of my folding saw to debark, it's sharp enough to take the bark off, but not sharp enough to damage the wood. A debarking drawknife doesn't have to be very sharp, so you could probably find/make one out of some mild scrap steel. All you need is a piece of metal with a kinda sharp edge, really. Check out construction dumpsters in your area, I'm sure you'll find something
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on January 22, 2014, 08:04:13 pm
Sorry, but I'm going to hijack this thread for a second.
What is the best way to debark a stave if you don't have a drawknife?
a good knife.
use it like a drawknife :)
I have always found with Locust and Ceder that the bark peels as easy and quickly in winter and summer.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: dmenzies1950 on January 22, 2014, 08:26:34 pm
Matt, I've built lots of mountain maple bows. Thats about the only bow wood we had when I lived in Libby Montana and as Gordan said," If it's cut in the winter the bark is hard to get off." I have had a terrible time getting the bark off if you let it season with the bark on too. If you cut it in the summer the bark almost falls off. that being said, I cut it when when I find it regardless of the time of year. I just peel the bark carefully with a draw shave so as not to compromise the back when I harvest it in the winter.  Dale
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 22, 2014, 09:40:14 pm
Thanks for all the great advise.  I think I might head out sometime soon just to get rid of some cabin fever.  I'll harvest just a few of each species, and scout for some other while the leaves are off.  Mt. Maple grows pretty thick, kinda hard to see when in peak growing season. 

Thanks again folks.  Matt Kulchak
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: PatM on January 22, 2014, 09:52:33 pm
I cut in late spring and summer and the bark peels right off and you don't have to fool with tools or anything like that.  It's worth the wait. 

You can still get the bark off pretty easily in the winter if you don't let it dry in place.
  I have not had that experience.  Are you talking about  getting it off with a draw knife or something?
In this case I am mainly talking about HHB. I just haven't had good luck cutting it in warm weather. I always just use a knife to shave most of the bark off and then use a spoon to scrape the rest off. I am very particular about not damaging the back in any way.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: osage outlaw on January 22, 2014, 10:17:10 pm
Short answer, do both. Get a few staves now. They will tell you how tough they are to peel. They will also be seasoning from now and will be ready to work by the time spring comes around. Then get some more that are easier to peel.

I agree with Don C.  Cut a tree or two now and see how much time and effort it takes to remove the bark.  Cut some in in the spring when the sap is flowing and decide which you like better.  I've done it both ways and prefer to cut white woods when the bark slips right off. 
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: lostarrow on January 23, 2014, 02:16:09 am
Winter is best from a wood structure point of view. Less water in the wood= less dry time, mold, warping ,checking and the layer under the bark is the late wood.   Best of all ( here anyway) you won't get one single mosquito or blackfly bite and you might not even break a sweat ! ;) (-20C tonight)
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: Pappy on January 23, 2014, 05:11:31 am
I prefer late spring or early summer,but will cut them when I get the chance also.
Del / :-\ not sure what kinder to the tree means,am I missing something  :-\
   Pappy
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 23, 2014, 08:25:40 am
I have mixed feelings. Early spring cutting makes it super easy to get a pristine back. However, by cutting early the tree has started its next ring of growth and its not as strong as previous years rings that had a full summer/fall to mature and grow, and harden Id imagine. Marc suggested that whitewoods get cut in the fall rather, after a full growing season. I tend to lean that way myself after thinking more about it. In the end? It probably is splitting hairs. Your tiller makes a good bow, not the season your wood was cut.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: Holten101 on January 23, 2014, 08:31:18 am
I cut when I get the chance....but, in my experience winter cut wood have less risk of checking, dries quicker and is easier to split (if below zero).

Cheers

Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 23, 2014, 09:11:28 am
I prefer to cut during the growing season because it is easier on me.
Biologically, the only living part of the tree comes off with the bark. It is the cambium layer which we call the inner bark. That's  the only part that has water in it besides the leaves and roots as it is the tree's transport system. That's why girding a tree kills it.

I agree with Don too. Cut some now and later. Wait a few days and draw knife the bark off. Get close with the draw knife and then take  a scraper to it.

Take  a  stave or 2 and floor tiller them. Getting them to bend an inch or 2. Monitor the moisture level with a moisture meter. If you don't have one, weigh the stave daily and look for moisture loss to be constant for a few days.

Above all...have fun!
Jawge
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: lostarrow on January 23, 2014, 09:31:57 am
I prefer to cut during the growing season because it is easier on me.
Biologically, the only living part of the tree comes off with the bark. It is the cambium layer which we call the inner bark. That's  the only part that has water in it besides the leaves and roots as it is the tree's transport system. That's why girding a tree kills it.

I agree with Don too. Cut some now and later. Wait a few days and draw knife the bark off. Get close with the draw knife and then take  a scraper to it.

Take  a  stave or 2 and floor tiller them. Getting them to bend an inch or 2. Monitor the moisture level with a moisture meter. If you don't have one, weigh the stave daily and look for moisture loss to be constant for a few days.

Above all...have fun!
Jawge

 If the rest of the wood didn't contain water , we wouldn't have to dry it  .The Cambium produces the Phloem. The Phloem is what brings the nutrients to the new growth. The Cambium turns into sapwood, which contains a lot of water. The heartwood ,although it is essentially dead ,is still not dry.  In your white wood bow ,you will be using sap wood from the outside next to the bark for your bow, so it's going to have a lot of water. (use the inner bits as well of course)    There is reason behind cutting firewood in winter , taping maple trees in spring ,etc.
    You can cut any time of the year, just keep in mind the water content and how it effects drying. Good luck , and have fun!
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 23, 2014, 09:53:09 am
Some many great responses with great reasoning.  Thanks you all.
Title: Re: Cutting white wood in winter?
Post by: PatM on January 23, 2014, 10:37:08 am
Jawge, you've been misinformed. The moisture content of trees fluctuates dramatically throughout the year and not just in the outside layer.