Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: dwardo on November 09, 2013, 05:33:31 pm
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Ayup all,
This is the first bit of osage I have ever seen in the flesh and its lovely stuff. I have a bench full of bright yellow/orange shavings :) The stave has a very nice early/late and is clean and straight. Only down side it its pretty narrow. I would think at best 1,3/8 wide, 62 inches long.
So thoughts please? This is my one and only osage for a long while as I had to actually pay for this! Never done that before :laugh:
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Pics would help but 1 3/8" is plenty for a 60" osage bow. I'd kick the tips just a bit to help prevent stack and it will make a sweeter bow.
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Pics would help but 1 3/8" is plenty for a 60" osage bow. I'd kick the tips just a bit to help prevent stack and it will make a sweeter bow.
Thanks pat, I dont want it too heavy. 50lb or so at most. Do I have enough wood to put in some recurves?
Will get some pics up a.m. but its near pipe straight.
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Here is my thoughts from the longbow biased kid, how long of a draw do you have? I would say keep it as close to 1 1/2" at the fades as possible. Cut the limbs in quarters and go from 1 1/2" to 1 1/4" to 1" to .75" to 3/8" at tips. This is my go to design for osage and it will definitely make a fast, low set bow. I made a bow recently to these specs, tillered until I could get a short string on then put 3" or so reflex starting from 12" from the tips. Depending how experienced you are, you could make it pull out to 28" unless it was backed. After that I think it would be risky.
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Here is my thoughts from the longbow biased kid, how long of a draw do you have? I would say keep it as close to 1 1/2" at the fades as possible. Cut the limbs in quarters and go from 1 1/2" to 1 1/4" to 1" to .75" to 3/8" at tips. This is my go to design for osage and it will definitely make a fast, low set bow. I made a bow recently to these specs, tillered until I could get a short string on then put 3" or so reflex starting from 12" from the tips. Depending how experienced you are, you could make it pull out to 28" unless it was backed. After that I think it would be risky.
If I could stitch on some extra wood it would be great to have it 1.5 inches wide. ;)
Just wondering if the width was enough for a static handle plus some small statics or maybe just a few inches gentle recurve. If the handle has to work then no worries I will pull it in.
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I made a 62"ttt,recurve.i-1/2" for most of it's lenght and slight deflex in the handle and came out @ 65#@ 28",so I think it's quite doable.treat it like and elm stave with heat treating is my best advice.
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It's by far the nicest one I have built to date!
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I think you can make the bow you want if you bring the working limbs right up to or through the handle. I like to feel the handle give a bit just as I hit full draw.
In the "ARCHIVES" thread I have a 60" elm static recurve I made a few years ago. It is wider than 1 3/8" but its elm and not osage. ;)
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I'm with pat and his last response,and what I was going to suggest,but he beat me to it...you have plenty of width and wood there to pull it off with your experience level
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+1 blackhawk. That's enough.
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Ayup all,
This is the first bit of osage I have ever seen in the flesh and its lovely stuff. I have a bench full of bright yellow/orange shavings :) The stave has a very nice early/late and is clean and straight. Only down side it its pretty narrow. I would think at best 1,3/8 wide, 62 inches long.
So thoughts please? This is my one and only osage for a long while as I had to actually pay for this! Never done that before :laugh:
What? That is one well deserved piece of osage. :)
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Hey Dwardo,
I have made several "sliver" osage bows. Most were finished out at 1" wide. There were 3 in all and 2 of them had "slow bend" recurves. (that means that the string did not touch the limb at brace) and the other was straight limbed. The strongest of them was 57" and just at 60# @ 28". They were all bend through the handle types with a circular tiller. Like most all my bows the limbs were low crowned back and belly (natural back and low crowned sectioned belly)
I don't think you will have any problems at all, judging from your other bows. My most recent osage bow is a 46" ntn, 50@ 25, Odawa scalloped bow....it is 1-3/16" wide at the outside of the scallops and a little less than 1" wide inside the scallops. I didn't post it but if this would help any be glad to email you some photos. This bow is straight limbed of course so may not help on the recurve question.
rich
rich
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With a clean straight peace of osage then a little narrow wont hurt you , a little snake in the stave would be a little tricky but it being straight you should be fine .
Others familur with osage may chime in but I think you got some good advice .
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Thanks for the info all. Pat thanks will give it a shot, osage from reading seems to be a wood you can push.
If this had of been elm I would have wanted more width, ash I would have been looking at very low 40`s which ever way. Yew I would have gone for it a bit more having made bows around the 60.
Think I will avoid a static and thing more reflex just working a tad if possible.
Rich, after this I am going D bow and giving the statics and short recurves a break for a bit to concentrate on D bows like yours. I have 3 elm staves just screaming to be scalloped bows.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3818_zps0203ac67.jpg)
I like to whittle, burn, smell bend and break new wood to see what it feels like. Osage is lovely hot clean burn that smells clean or sweet. Great weight in the hand and great under a sharp tool.
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WARNING!!!!!
Some say that yellow wood is addictive .... ;)
I have a pile of it myself , been dabbling with some other wood but still working with osage at the same time.
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Have been removing anything that doesn't look like a heavy bow and skirting around the width where possible.
Its still nice and heavy with a light floor tiller. Its time to give it a profile with the gun. So far its just deflex in the outers.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3861_zps31532d71.jpg)
Odd drying check on the back
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3859_zps63fdc6d2.jpg)
As much width as I could save
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3857_zpse50dc05d.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3858_zpsfc2e10e0.jpg)
Very happy to have my elbow starting to work again so been shooting a few arrows from the last static elm i made. Nice to loose a few again.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3840_zps72e0adc8.jpg)
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That's a fine stave waiting for a good bowyer to turn it into a fine bow :) You'll have no problems. ;)
I recently reworked an old dog of an osage bow of mine and the first thing I did was narrow it to 1 3/8ths, mild crowned belly and a few tweaks. She shoots just great now. What i'm saying is that it's very easy to overbuild osage and I think your width is perfect for the weight you want. Personally i'd make a recurve from it but that's just me...and I love recurves :)
ps. Wainwright is my favourite bottled beer, very refreshing eh? ;)
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Yeah it's a lovely drop mate. Pure bow building juice. Although I did have a waggle-dance afterwards.
So short static or longer working and keep more active limb......
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I vote short sharp static hooks....get the steamer out n start a bending 8)
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I think you know what my vote is dwardo...:)
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That`s settled then. >:D
Soon as the missus and the boy are asleep I will commandeer her favourite stewing pan and steam in some short n sharps.
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Atta boy... ;) your gonna love how it bends ;)
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Atta boy!
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Is there an echo in here ??? :laugh: :laugh:
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Is there an echo in here? ??? ;D ::)
OneBow
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Short and a bit sharp but tarted out on the full 90. ;D
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3865_zps722af273.jpg)
Tonight its a waggle dance.
Will stick this outside for an hour where its 1deg C, then have at the other.
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Thats what Im talking about right there. Thats the perfect use for 6-7" of tip that woudl be dead otherwise. It still weighs the same as it di before you bent it, but your bow just went through the roof. Nice work. Bow length dictates static length, but I always make mine as short as mathmatically possible, I miss my mark here and there.
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Come on PD, everyone knows recurves just look good and don't do anything else.
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That's looking great. To me there is something so intimidating about doing a static. Need to sac up I guess.
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Badgers champion this time,
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3867_zps87836820.jpg)
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Fun to watch your first osage shape up. Looking forward to the finale.
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Come on PD, everyone knows recurves just look good and don't do anything else.
Dang it ! Thats right. I always forget Im wasting my time when I build statics. Dwardo, just keep telling yourself, Its just for looks, its just for looks, its just for looks. And when your done? You'll be pleasantly suprised..;)
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Looking good!
I'm going to buy some more osage too....I have a need to work on a yellow stave. :)
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The result of a nights steaming.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3873_zps05f384d0.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3871_zps4e4d7f18.jpg)
And a hangover...
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Sounds like ya need a Bloody Mary >:D looking good...now dry heat in 1-2" of reflex thru the working limbs and you'll be ready to go ;)
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And some some deflex out of the handle >:D
That stave will make a screamer ;)
Mildly rounded belly too, especially out of the fades.
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And some some deflex out of the handle >:D
That stave will make a screamer ;)
Mildly rounded belly too, especially out of the fades.
Sounds like ya need a Bloody Mary >:D looking good...now dry heat in 1-2" of reflex thru the working limbs and you'll be ready to go ;)
Reflex, deflex, this is gonna be like the car Homer designed ;)
Going to remove a bit more wood and get it bending just a bit. So far its all by eye.
Then maybe steam in the deflex a little? Not had great results with dry heat that close to the handle before. Then dry heat in some reflex. Maybe just one or two beers tonight ::)
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That will teach me to have my head in a pile of shavings. Where did you get that Osage! Man I am loving this thread. Your not going to like it but you have to work less on them computer things and more on this strange yellow wood ;)
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Looking very good,should be a real sweet shooter,looking forward to seeing it bend. :) Careful on getting it braced,with the tips and more reflex it will feel much heavier than it really is when first trying to brace it. :) It can fool you into thinking it is way to heavy very easy. :)
Pappy
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This is a fun link, Dwardo! I'm in your corner, buddy! You've got a great start and there is something really enjoyable in seeing our American gold on a workbench over there. I'll be watching!
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That will teach me to have my head in a pile of shavings. Where did you get that Osage! Man I am loving this thread. Your not going to like it but you have to work less on them computer things and more on this strange yellow wood ;)
Ayup matey. Managed to pick the osage up cheap on a forum :)
Its a shame the computer stuff pays the bills or I would spend all my time playing with sticks >:D and yup its strange stuff indeed.
Looks like elm close up, works like yew and cherry. It is also happy under pretty much any tool sharp or scrape. Bends as easily as a politician too.
Looking very good,should be a real sweet shooter,looking forward to seeing it bend. :) Careful on getting it braced,with the tips and more reflex it will feel much heavier than it really is when first trying to brace it. :) It can fool you into thinking it is way to heavy very easy. :)
Pappy
Hope so pappy, have been fooled many times with that early feeling draw. Hope not too again.
This is a fun link, Dwardo! I'm in your corner, buddy! You've got a great start and there is something really enjoyable in seeing our American gold on a workbench over there. I'll be watching!
It is nice to have a physical reference here in front of me. I read so much about this fabled stuff.
If i can pluck up the courage I will be having a scape this eve but its about -1 in my workshop at the moment and suffering with man-flu i might wuss out. Its ok though the doctor says I will live despite my complaints;)
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Have not had the mindset to do much bow work recently, the most I have done is potter round and tidy up all the shavings.
I think sometimes unless your mind is upto it then you just make more mistakes and dont enjoy it.
This evening after a face drilling at the dentist I had some time to play with this bit of osage. Rough out an elm and reduce this yew a bit.
Now this is a tasty looking workshop floor!
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3925_zps25b628ec.jpg)#
Roughing out a yew longbow. Only tend to get to this every now and then as I am not thinking about longbows at the min.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3929_zpsb37d797f.jpg)
The Osage is getting there :D . This is the first time it has seen a string after cutting in some temp nocks.
I added about an inch of reflex to the outers. Could have done more but i think less heat will give me a better intro to the wood.
Currently about 1,5/8 of reflex and not budged at all yet.
Barely any eight on the string
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3917_zps33656b07.jpg)
Nice to see nothing jumps out so near brace. The shape the bow should be is getting much clearer in mind now even before its seen a string.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3923_zpsed0a462f.jpg)
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Looks like it's getting close to the short string....What do ya think?
DBar
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Wow! that is yellow isn't it. I've heard people say "yaller wood" but boy! I had a sports car that colour. That's going on my list. I guess the bow isn't that bright though.
Don
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Looks like it's getting close to the short string....What do ya think?
DBar
Oh so close. The second shot is nearly an inch brace if it wasn't for the handle depth, no idea what I will do with the handle yet.
So far its got to here with only the eye rather than a long string or muc floor tiller. So hopefully I have not annoyed the wood yet. I am sure I will upset it later on in tiller but its as fresh as a daisy so far.
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Wow! that is yellow isn't it. I've heard people say "yaller wood" but boy! I had a sports car that colour. That's going on my list. I guess the bow isn't that bright though.
Don
Very stand out yellow 8) Never seen anything like it.
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Be careful, that yellow will reach right out and grab you!
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Well she is starting to bend. Amazing how I am upto my knees in yellow shavings yet when i put her back on the scales it still weights the same :o
Its out here at 48 at 19" So far its starting to show a tiny bit of change, about half inch from its original slightly deflexed profile.
I think she is going to get some heat and a tiny bit of reflex in the outers. Its only 60 inches long with a 7 inch none working handle.
Anyone take a guess at its mass? Seems to be bending a little too much mid limb right>?
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3949_1_zps1eaa8aae.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG3948_1_zpsc17e1477.jpg)
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The tiller shot in the pic looks great to my eyes Dwardo, if its too stiff anywhere its subtle as far as I can tell from here.
Thats a sweet looking osage bow you have going. I'll be watching to see more on this one, always nice to see post of works in progress. Keep 'em coming Dwardo.
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I dont see any issues, draw it by hand and see what she says.
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I would agree with you on the right limb though it's debatable. Might change it when drawn by hand. Looking very nice!
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It looks good, no hinges but the innermost 1/3 of the limb is stiff, stiffer than the other limb At least
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I wouldnt touch the right midlimb. A few scrapes to the inner and outer should put you right. Overall the thing looks awesome! It obvious you are taking your time and enjoying this one! Patience is the key.
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Looking sweet so far!
The problem I see is the inner right limb is a shade stiff this is making the mid limb bend a little too much.
Scrape/file a wee smidge off out of the fade/inner limb - on your tillering board the first three boxes out of the right fade...feathered into the beginning of the mid limb.
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Thanks for the input chaps.
I had not looked at this bow since my last post. Picked it up today and the thickness taper in the fade explains it all. Its fine one side but a few mm thicker on the other, stands out a mile.
Hope to get it bending again soon but our little boy has a bad cough and not sleeping. So mostly watching family guy at 3.am and trying to sleep wither side of that!
Providing all goes well I will be backing this bow with silk, either white or black as i have good quality raw silk strips spare.
The back has several drying checks which whilst I dont think they will cause any problems they are ugly.
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Quick update. Lots of ibuprofen/supports and she is finally shooting. Mid to late 50`s at 26/27.
No full draw as I have given up on the board after 20" draw as it never seems to work quite as well in the hand. When the better half has more patience I will ask her to get the camera out.
Little hand shock to sort out but most of that will be lost when i reduce the temp nocks and outers and adjust the timing a bit. Nice to be scraping wood again.
I have chased an inch of follow forwards and backwards with this bow but i dont think its changed much more than an inch from its original shape. Varying prop twist has made this fun.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG4023_zpsc3cff44f.jpg)
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looking real nice dwardo, I don't know what all the fuss is with getting someone to snap a pic , I do all my f/d pics with the timer, just watch the red light and when it starts to blink fast draw, after a little practice you will be getting it in the first shot, bub
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looking real nice dwardo, I don't know what all the fuss is with getting someone to snap a pic , I do all my f/d pics with the timer, just watch the red light and when it starts to blink fast draw, after a little practice you will be getting it in the first shot, bub
I need a another camera besides my phone bub. It's hard to get it to stand up properly due to its shape.
Also doesn't help that it's dark at 4 these days. Excuses aside will sort one out today or tomorrow when the little man is out with his mar for the day and daddy gets some daylight hours playing.
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You have a winner there dwardo.
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As promised.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/P8070035_zps392cdc4a.jpg)
Just some mass at the tips and think about how to tart her up. No idea on that side with it being bright yellow! Its a fashion nightmare.
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that turned out great, the full draw says it all nice one.
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Looking good!
Don't worry about the colour just leave it on a windowsill or somewhere in the sunlight (???) and turn it over now and again :)
I sometimes use a walnut or other dark stain. Let it dry then sand most of it off again and the dye will stay in the earlywood pores...maybe not for everyone but I like the look :)
The outer limbs/tips can be surprisingly narrow...or a better word might be scary! I've made my last osage recurve tips 3/8ths at the nocks...of course they need to line up to go that narrow >:D
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That is a sweet bend. Very nice curves.
I use a vinegar and steel wool stain to quicken the darkening of the wood on osage. It works pretty well.
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Boy great looking full draw. Very even in the hand. Way to go on your first osage.
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definitely worth the wait, nice bends, bub
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Looking very nice!
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I don't think I could get the tiller that good unless I used Photoshop. ;D Looks very nice.
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Turned out great. Are you itching to work with more osage?
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I hope I can make a recurve as nice someday! Thanks and good job. Marco
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Getting there folks. Stupidly thought I would have time to play over the holidays, more fool me.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/drawupload_zps054797db.jpg)
Chasing the tiller has been a nightmare on this. I get it looking good but then it doesnt fell right in the hand. I have probably halves the outers in width which did lose me a little weight but certainly dulled the hand shock. I have also backed it in silk to hide the not so nice bits.
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Looks awfully good to me dwardo. Your bow is so symmetrical unbraced that it has to feel good in your hand if it looks that good.
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Very nice Sir! Careful, or you'll be spending the rent chasing that Osage high. :)
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Very nice!
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Great job. Looks to me like you nailed the tiller.
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I think half the hassle comes from the limb twist in the bottom. Makes it look strange at different angles. That and its almost a symmetrical limb bow. It had natural deflex which I left in and didnt heat treat it for a change. The recurves put it into about an inch of reflex, it loses half an inch after shooting in and gains the full inch back after resting for half hour.
I really could do with another bowyer near by if not an archer to shoot this for me. I think a lot of the shock at loose is just me and my knackered elbow.
Will give it a sand over the next few days and shine it up some. Black back and buffalo overlays makes it very tarty. Almost fiberglass dare I day the word.
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Well its near finished but it seems to have all gone a bit "adult" looking!
If your bow says something about you then I am not getting enough...... :laugh:
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG4111_zps089829fc.jpg)
Soon as we see the sun again, which I seem to remember is a big yellow orb somewhere in the sky, i will get some decent photos.
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Bow looks great. Nicely done! Jawge
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Hehe!
It needs some scarlet lippy and fishnets! ;) ;)
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That turned out nice :)
DBar