Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Atlatlista on November 04, 2013, 03:30:40 pm
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So, I live on a farm now, and I have this like, whole field of black locust, more or less. Maybe 100+ decent-sized trees with tons (a thousand?) of shoots and saplings. I've heard some people say it's a decent bow wood, but I was wondering what your opinions are on it. Is it a good wood? What kinds of bows does it make best? What's the performance like? Can you use the shoots for arrows? I've got so many shoots I'm awfully tempted.
Side note - I also have a ton of nice, straight, small diameter willow shoots. Does willow make acceptable arrows? I know it makes okay atlatl darts.
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Go to your Google search engine page and type the words "black locust primitive archer" and you'll get a whole days worth plus of info from a ton of previous threads ...click on the more results and it'll display many pages of threads about black locust.....its best to do a search first..and if then you still can't find your answers then ask...but your simple question has been asked n answered a thousand times before....not being a jerk..jus saying there's a wealth of info at your finger tips..just click and use it... ;)
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BL makes great bows. IMHO, too heavy for shafting, but I have never tried the shoots.
1 3/4 wide at the end of the fades, 63-68 inches in length, with a flat belly, tapering to 1/2 inch tips and bobs your uncle. Many variations on theme as well. Depending on thickness, should be good for 40-60 pound bows.
Russ
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I have never personally worked with it but I have heard it is more prone to chrysalling unless you tiller good. Other than that, I have heard it is probably the best bow wood as far as speed. Osage is probably the best all around and yew is pretty easy to work and black locust is picky but if it works it is amazing.
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I got a BL stave from patb and it's like 8 yrs old or more. Hard as nails. Pain in the ass. But what I've read and stuff makes a great bow if done right. I'm just waiting till I can do it right
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I know this subject in general has been covered extensively, like most of em on here, but I am curious of peoples experience with black locust as well. I recently acquired a nice board of black locust. I have access to tons of it too, I have for years, but the stuff is always eaten up with huge borer grubs.
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Good wood !!
Follow the rules for it !
Shoots should be good for arrows , I have not used it for arrows personally but see no reason not to !
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Good wood !!
Follow the rules for it !
I disagree....its EXCELLENT wood!!!! ;) :D
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My favorite bow wood. Osage is more stable and reliable especially at higher weights, but my fastest bows per draw weight have been black locust.
If I had one chance to make one bow from one stave, I'd choose Osage because I'm not a dummy.
If I had a choice of five staves of the same wood to make bows from, I'd go with BL to get the fastest bow possible.
The stuff takes heat and steam very well, and a toasted belly is a big help due to the high tension to compression strength ratio. I also trap some of my BL bows, but I kinda like the look of a clean BL back enough that I hold off until I'm sure I need it.
My best have been 65-70" TtT, 13/4" at the fades narrowing to pencil thin steam-recurved tips (seriously, I make them as thin as possible and always like them to do a little work) with BL overlay nocks. I would have to call most of them character bows as I haven't had many staves 'boring' enough to make completely character-less ::)
I have no idea how to use a BL board. I'd take a swing at using a bamboo back and slightly wider design. Despite the tendency to chrysal, BL actually has a very high compression strength; I think the issue is actually that the tension strength is significantly higher than the compression strength, which when compared to Osage's com/ten strength and higher jenka hardness is less stable.
I've made bows that I still shoot with two-month wood. I cut the wood four inches longer than what I'm going for and don't bother sealing after immediately splitting. My stuff has all been very easy to split, but apparently that's not always the story. I take the sapwood off as soon as possible and just leave it in the garage for two months, and keep it near the wood stove while working on it. If the wood is slightly green when the bow is finished you can expect it to gain a few pounds of draw weight, so don't make your perfect bow from green wood ;)
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@Toomanyknots....if you remember Ryano made a couple hard backed locust laminates,and Marc has made one as well that turned out sweet from what I saw....I found a board earlier this year that I plan on making a lam bow with...if youve aquired just one board(the lumber is elcheapo,mine was..just a few bucks)then why not go for it and try it....but with my experiences with locust I've found the better stuff for compression to be bigger ringed stuff,or a good ratio of small early wood to late wood...even tho its porous like osage,and most any osage will still make a decent bow,not so with locust IMO....so when looking for a board obviously find clean(no knots)straight grain,and look at the end cut to check its ring ratio....
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Good wood !!
Follow the rules for it !
I disagree....its EXCELLENT wood!!!! ;) :D
Sorry
I miss spoke again !!!
Maybe someday I will learn the proper use of this complex language!
Recon That is what you get when you pull a worthless old nut from the backwoods and put him on a new fandangled wireless thingamabob !
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My favorite bow wood. Osage is more stable and reliable especially at higher weights, but my fastest bows per draw weight have been black locust.
If I had one chance to make one bow from one stave, I'd choose Osage because I'm not a dummy.
If I had a choice of five staves of the same wood to make bows from, I'd go with BL to get the fastest bow possible.
The stuff takes heat and steam very well, and a toasted belly is a big help due to the high tension to compression strength ratio. I also trap some of my BL bows, but I kinda like the look of a clean BL back enough that I hold off until I'm sure I need it.
My best have been 65-70" TtT, 13/4" at the fades narrowing to pencil thin steam-recurved tips (seriously, I make them as thin as possible and always like them to do a little work) with BL overlay nocks. I would have to call most of them character bows as I haven't had many staves 'boring' enough to make completely character-less ::)
I have no idea how to use a BL board. I'd take a swing at using a bamboo back and slightly wider design. Despite the tendency to chrysal, BL actually has a very high compression strength; I think the issue is actually that the tension strength is significantly higher than the compression strength, which when compared to Osage's com/ten strength and higher jenka hardness is less stable.
I've made bows that I still shoot with two-month wood. I cut the wood four inches longer than what I'm going for and don't bother sealing after immediately splitting. My stuff has all been very easy to split, but apparently that's not always the story. I take the sapwood off as soon as possible and just leave it in the garage for two months, and keep it near the wood stove while working on it. If the wood is slightly green when the bow is finished you can expect it to gain a few pounds of draw weight, so don't make your perfect bow from green wood ;)
Wonderful post. Thank you so much for the detailed information. At the risk of being told to use the search feature again, could you post some pics of your favorite BL bows?
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Ask away !
He will answer !
Cause if he don't I will mess it up !
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Would you like us to make the bow for you as well? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Tell him yes please and give him a pretty smile
he will melt
his bark is more than his bite !
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I have one of his, it is a prize possession for sure , I don't even have a pretty smile !
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ..lol guy :laugh:
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Would you like us to make the bow for you as well? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Would love that! I'll send you free staves and money, you send back finished bows - I would reckon it ideal. To paraphrase the great English archer Roger Ascham - Let not the archer begin with the making of the bow, but with the buying of the bow.
I have no illusions about my capabilities. I've been lurking on these forums for quite a while now, spending a ridiculous proportion of that time drooling over your Osage works of art. Could I ever make anything that nice? I dunno. I kind of doubt it, but it wouldn't come without a prodigious investment of time and dedication and passion and love. Unfortunately for me, my passion is shooting. I shoot an hour a day no matter what. That lends to good accuracy but lame building skills.
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Don't sell yourself short , the same dedication and heart you put into shooting can carry over to building bows .
I've seen people at OJAM that had never built a bow little on shoot a traditional bow build one in less than three days ( they did have someone around to help out when needed ) , last year we helped a young girl with a bow and she was shooting it the next afternoon , her father was building one and she wanted to build one also , the stave she got wasn't the best . after watching her work on it and not give up I went to my pickup and got her a good stave and gave it to her , her father had a half a day head start and she still had her bow shooting before he did.
A little patients and when you have a question and ask then fallow directions and you can pull it off , but hurry and push through it and you could be making firewood .
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I appreciate the kind words, Poggins. Realistically, I need to fail (and maybe even succeed) at some board bows before I start tearing up nice staves. However, the black locust does need controlling here, and if I got good prep instructions I wouldn't mind donating staves to needy bowyers with the skill sets to really get the most out of them and do them justice.
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We don't know any needy Bowyers with skills to do that , and the prep work is actually the hard part !
So cut some and bring them over to Marshall MI. Memorial weekend and someone will trade you out of them !
Between blackhawk, Misslemaster , Pearly, Paulsemp,and a few others ! somebody might have enough skill to show you a thing or two ,and you may even go home with a bow !
While you are there you can teach them how to shoot !
They need the help !!
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We don't know any needy Bowyers with skills to do that , and the prep work is actually the hard part !
So cut some and bring them over to Marshall MI. Memorial weekend and someone will trade you out of them !
Between blackhawk, Misslemaster , Pearly, Paulsemp,and a few others ! somebody might have enough skill to show you a thing or two ,and you may even go home with a bow !
While you are there you can teach them how to shoot !
They need the help !!
Now that I live in Wisconsin, I may just take you up on that. I'll be back from Africa by then, and a traditional archery rendezvous is my idea of a great time.
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Just remember that every failed bow is one more lesson learned , every broken bow , henge , or missed weight mark will teach you what not to do on the next one .
I stepped out of my comfort zone of working with osage and worked with other woods , the first was chittamwood , had it close but had a spot about three inches long that was stiff on one limb that needed scraped some more , I pulled it back one too many times before working that spot out and it blew , I'm fighting a Kentuky coffee tree now , string doesn't want to line up center of the handle even when I've heated it , one limb is getting away from me on the tillering tree , I had heat treated the bow and was trying to even the tiller up and a couple of passes with the scrapper and the limb that was too stiff suddenly went soft and now looks whip tillered , lesson on this one : be sure the wood you are working is dry enough to be worked , had the stave in the house for two months , cut it down to shape and a straight stave began warping on me , bought a moisture meter and checked one of the other staves and the moisture was still over 24% . Got another with some bulk removed and drying now but still haven't given up on the first one yet ( also have another chittamwood ready for the tillering tree , after looking a little closer at it I may have an idea of how to get it to work out ) .
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Here's a link to my favorite locust I've done to date...you'll have to ask willh how it shoots as its in his possession ;) ...sorry..no pics...I know I know..its soooooo hard to click on a link...lol :laugh:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36920.0.html
Locust is in my top three all time favorite woods if that tells ya anything ;) ...n yeah...come on out to some shoots..I'm sure someone can help ya out n I can guarantee you'll have a blast...they're a lot of fun...if you enjoy this forum you'll enjoy the shoots tenfold ;) ..and make some great new friends as well...which in this hobby is key,because of "hook-ups" ;)
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Here's a link to my favorite locust I've done to date...you'll have to ask willh how it shoots as its in his possession ;) ...sorry..no pics...I know I know..its soooooo hard to click on a link...lol :laugh:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36920.0.html
Locust is in my top three all time favorite woods if that tells ya anything ;) ...n yeah...come on out to some shoots..I'm sure someone can help ya out n I can guarantee you'll have a blast...they're a lot of fun...if you enjoy this forum you'll enjoy the shoots tenfold ;) ..and make some great new friends as well...which in this hobby is key,because of "hook-ups" ;)
I was using the search feature this morning, I knew you'd be so proud.
Thanks so much for the link, BH. I've seen a lot of your bows on this forum, I thought Scorpio's sting was my favorite, but now it's that one, actually. My dream bow for next year's national traditional target archery championships in the trad longbow division is a slightly-recurved Molly. It would sneak in as a longbow under the rules but probably give you enough FPS to leave the ELBs in the dust. It'd be great for IFAA outdoor world championships this year in Yankton, SD too, in the "historic bow" division. It's definitely a design that's on my short list of best "primitive target bows." Adb's osage recurve, and mikekeswick's BL and osage recurves are right up there too.
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Wow..using the search engine...I'm impressed :P ;D
If you are into target shooting and competing seriously I'd stretch out the design to something real similar to this one..
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=36860.0
I know its not locust ,but you can pretty much do the same dimensions as that with locust at that length....I don't have that bow anymore either(I have a habit of giving the good ones away),but I could shoot bulls eyes allllllllllll day long with that bow....it has everything you want and need in a bow for serious target shooting....I love shooting just as much as I do making them,and I could stand there n shoot that bow for a long time before putting it down,and I'd walk away when I was done with a big ole grin on my chin....
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You made a long holmie with a riser for target-shooting? I've been suggesting that as a competition longbow on like six different forums. That's awesome! I think that bow would clean up in the longbow division in just about every major governing body. The D-shape makes it totally legal, but the levers give you cast that other people aren't going to get with Howard Hill type designs. That's a super-exciting bow. Yew is my favorite wood too, though it doesn't seem to grow much around the Wisconsin area except in the form of shrubs.
Edit: Just realized that's one piece and not a glue-up. Jaw is on floor.
Edit: And the grain pattern on the belly...
If only it weren't made backwards with the shelf on the wrong side, it would be perfect.