Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BowSlayer on November 01, 2013, 03:59:36 pm
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hey guys im making a ELB for a guy at the club. i got the materials today. a oak backing strip just over 1/16" thickand an unknown hardwood witch is a bit darker and harder than the oak 3/4" thick. i wan't to make a laminated ELB so was wondering if anyone has any dimentions? i asked Del and he said 28mm x 25mm at the handle tapering to 15mm x 15mm at the tips. but i want to know how long, 65" maybe? if anyone knows some dimensions for me to work to that would be great. thanks
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this might also be my last bow unless i find the perfect yew stave or maybe even the 2014 bow trade but appart from that im going to take a break from this bow making.
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i knew someone was going to bring this up. :P a guy can't say no to a bit of money, can he?
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65" is very short for a longbow. Go about 75" to play it safe. 72" is about as short as you wanna go.
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Thanks will
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a guy can't say no to a bit of money, can he?
Ethically speaking, I'm pretty sure you should not be saying "yes." It's a dangerous road you tread, walk carefully.
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Don't know whats going on in this thread, but what sucks is that you don't know what kind of wood you got. The wood type can definitely effect dimensions. It might not even be bow wood worthy. That said, if I was going for 45#, using hickory, and my length was around 74" nock to nock, then I would go 1" wide and 13/16" to 7/8" thick at center. 7/8" would be playing it safe, but those dimensions can easily give you 60 to 70 lbs as well. I just use a straight pyramid taper for this weight. And of course 1/2" at the tips.
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I'm going on the record to say that this is a terrible idea. The fact that you don't even know what kind of wood you are using and you need the the dimensions for your bow spoon fed to you clearly show that you have no business selling a bow to anyone. There's nothing wrong with asking about dimensions when you're learning the ropes for bow making and there's not much wrong with playing around with a mystery wood but they should be clear signs to you that you're not ready to accept money for your work.
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1-16th is too thin for a backing if ypu want a glue line!~
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You're going to make a bow for money, and you don't know what kind of wood you have? Are you kidding??
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I don't like being quoted out of context, so here's what I actually said.
Dunno really, laminates are not my thing.
Make it a good few inches longer than you need, you can then cut it
down if you are under weight. I'd go for say 2" taller than you.
Ask the guys on PA they will have some idea, especially if you can
tell 'em what wood you are going to use.
At a guess I'd say rough out to about 28mm widex 25mm thick at ther
grip tapering to 15mm x15 mm at the tips, that should give plenty of
poundage to play with.
But like I say, that's just an inteligent guess... ask the laminate boys.
Del
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Sorry guys the backing is 1/8" and the unknown wood seems to be a type of mahogany. Which I have made into a bow before and ive seen picturesof it used for an ELB.
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There are quite a few woods known as mahogany - none of which make great bows IMO.
It's likely to be sapelle. Where did you get it from.
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Ive made a ton of red oak backed somekind of wood bows, tons and tons actually. Ive had great luck with somekind of wood, it allows you to keep the bow a tad more narrow than say yew or elm. And anybody thats been around here for more than a day or two already knows red oak is a premium backing as its super strong in tension and very elastic. One of my faves for backers, next to yellow cedar.
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Ive made a ton of red oak backed somekind of wood bows, tons and tons actually. Ive had great luck with somekind of wood, it allows you to keep the bow a tad more narrow than say yew or elm. And anybody thats been around here for more than a day or two already knows red oak is a premium backing as its super strong in tension and very elastic. One of my faves for backers, next to yellow cedar.
Wait.... You don't count pine in your top 3 for backing woods?!
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Pine is junk Will, everybody knows that.
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There are quite a few woods known as mahogany - none of which make great bows IMO.
It's likely to be sapelle. Where did you get it from.
I got it from a builders warehouse for around £10. I've compared it to my mahogany flatbow and the colour and grain are the same. Whats "sapelle"
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Do not use that unknown hardwood for ELBs. Just don't. It will fail. And the backing is too thin. Get proper materials before even considering making a bow that you want to sell. You're breaking down your own business.
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Pine is junk Will, everybody knows that.
I can't work out if you knew I was joking or not anymore...
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Pine also has a tendency to catch up on door frames. No good at all.
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Pine is junk Will, everybody knows that.
I can't work out if you knew I was joking or not anymore...
Isn't everybody???
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You know, Bowslayer, for someone who said he was leaving and not coming back, you're at it again. With only a 2 week time out, you're back on the forum stirring up a shit-storm with ridiculous statements. I don't understand. Please reconsider making someone else a bow for money, before someone gets hurt. No offense, but I don't think you have enough experience to be selling your bows yet, especially made from a wood that you can't identify. Good grief man, stop and think!
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I agree with everybody. BUT they can't stop you. That's not to say you don't listen to them. They are very wise. But if you want to try, even tho you have no idea what will happen( possible KABOOM!!) but if you don't want to get new stuff and just try it, then whatever. I am not beating on you or anybody that helped you, I'm just trying to reach a conclusion where nobody simultaneously combusts because they are so pissed :o so if you don't want to listen do what you want. They will just give you their 2 cents and some times a little bs ;D they have learned from experience that it isn't a good idea to put an unknown wood that could be horrible in compression on a bow design that is very compression reliant. And that cross section is hard to master so I would say you might practice on some other bows. Just my 2 cents
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Why are you stopping making bows???? I thought that was impossible! Go to medicine bow woods and that guy has some nice yew staves for cheap. The guy is pretty awesome too!
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Except all his wood is rubbish. Poorly seasoned, bad quality, low gpi, and not picked for bows. The clue is in the name...
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Seriously?? I am going to buy some from him and have heard amazing things from people about him. How are they poorly seasoned? How low is the gpi? He has a bunch of different quality woods. Did you buy something bad quality an not the best?
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so if you don't want to listen do what you want.
There is a long history of BS asking questions, getting good advice, and then ingnoring it anyway. Almost without fail, it fails. He is off and running with yet another hare-brained idea, which in turn he asks for advice with the same results.
He is the very embodiment of Wile E. Coyote. Bright, full of energy, and never short of ideas. But he NEVER learns from a mistake, never repeats the experiment with improved materials or experience. And thusly, he will never know the joys of a rich dish of smoked roadrunner under glass. THAT is what frustrates so many of us to no living end!
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Seriously?? I am going to buy some from him and have heard amazing things from people about him. How are they poorly seasoned? How low is the gpi? He has a bunch of different quality woods. Did you buy something bad quality an not the best?
At best, it's a Russian Roulette. He charges premium money for "staves" that he cut himself. He's not a bowyer, he supplies medicine wood (taxus from yew being cancer drugs) and probably realised there are people who will pay through the teeth for some "premium" yew. Go for it if you want, but it's a heck of a lottery. I've been stung a couple of times by him, and learned my lesson hard.
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ya know what im going to take your advice. ill, make the bow as an experiment but i won't sell it to him. if he want's he can buy one of my other bows like my oak recurve or my halloween bow. they both have good tiller and have both been shot a bunch of times. ill have a talk to him. sorry if this has upset and anoyed some of you guys, i can now see how silly i was being i mean iv'e only made 1 ELB before and that was with guidence and the correct woods. thanks for the advice guys.
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Keep at it Bowslayer, but maybe don't aim to sell until you are more experienced... You really cant buddy!
You can learn a lot here if you are humble and prepared to listen. There are a lot of experienced guys here that will see you for good advice
Make and post some more bows and keep your mind open to criticism .. Believe me ,you'll get there
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Youngster
You show signs of improvement!
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Seriously?? I am going to buy some from him and have heard amazing things from people about him. How are they poorly seasoned? How low is the gpi? He has a bunch of different quality woods. Did you buy something bad quality an not the best?
At best, it's a Russian Roulette. He charges premium money for "staves" that he cut himself. He's not a bowyer, he supplies medicine wood (taxus from yew being cancer drugs) and probably realised there are people who will pay through the teeth for some "premium" yew. Go for it if you want, but it's a heck of a lottery. I've been stung a couple of times by him, and learned my lesson hard.
I agree. I've had bad luck buying from him.
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How dense does the unknown wood seems? More or less than mahogany? How hard? I've had people look at my straight grained ipe and ask if its mahogany (personally I don't see the resemblance but I've had actual wood workers ask so guess some do).
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have you considered trying the "tiny bow" test? where you make a miniature version of the full size bow? its a very good way to test the properties of an unknown wood without putting too much effort into a full sized bow.
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How dense does the unknown wood seems? More or less than mahogany? How hard? I've had people look at my straight grained ipe and ask if its mahogany (personally I don't see the resemblance but I've had actual wood workers ask so guess some do).
it has fairly thick growth rings about 8 Rpi and that seems about the same.
have you considered trying the "tiny bow" test? where you make a miniature version of the full size bow? its a very good way to test the properties of an unknown wood without putting too much effort into a full sized bow.
no never tried that how small should the bow be?
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Doesn't really matter how small, just make it proportional. Do it 1/3 or 1/4 the size. Adjust ALL your measurments accordingly.
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One thing about making an elb is that you are locked into certain parameters of a ratio width to thickness. If you want the bow 72" long just make it 1 1/8 wide. If it has too much mass at that length jst make the tiller more elyptical, f it is a very light wood like say cherry make the tiller rounder or full circle tiller. You can rough the bow out till it is bending pretty good but still heavy and then decide on the tiller you need based on the mass weight of the bow. for 72" long and 45#@28 you should use a full circle tiller between about 12 to 14 oz mass weight, a slightly elyptical tiller betwen 14 and 17 and very elyptical 17 to 19 oz.
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SAPELE - Entandrophragma cylindricum
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SAPELE - Entandrophragma cylindricum
Does it make a bow?
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Dude! What did I just say in my last post!!! Have you got selective reading abilities!
Sorry not meaning to be rude......but seriously go cut a hardwood tree that will definately make a bow. There is so much potential bow wood growing in this country....forget laminating woods you can't even identify.
That's my last piece of advice until you start reading/listening.
Good luck
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Dude! What did I just say in my last post!!! Have you got selective reading abilities!
Sorry not meaning to be rude......but seriously go cut a hardwood tree that will definately make a bow. There is so much potential bow wood growing in this country....forget laminating woods you can't even identify.
That's my last piece of advice until you start reading/listening.
Good luck
oh yeah sorry bout that :P got alot on my mind right now :laugh:
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Look for wasteland where saplings have shot up. Scrub woodland often needs pruning to "increase biodiversity" ;)
Hazel, ash, elm, cherry, even goat willow at a push and birch.
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Look for wasteland where saplings have shot up. Scrub woodland often needs pruning to "increase biodiversity" ;)
Hazel, ash, elm, cherry, even goat willow at a push and birch.
Oll have a look around. Thanks