Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BowSlayer on October 12, 2013, 10:56:14 am

Title: Z handle?
Post by: BowSlayer on October 12, 2013, 10:56:14 am
has anyone got any pics of a bow with a z shaped handle i remember seeing one recently and wan't to use it on my next bow so was wondering if anyone had any pics. thanks.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: IdahoMatt on October 12, 2013, 11:17:01 am
There was a bow on a while back call old sows ear I think that had a z handle.  Can't quite remember hope it helps :)
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: adb on October 12, 2013, 11:56:51 am
has anyone got any pics of a bow with a z shaped handle i remember seeing one recently and wan't to use it on my next bow so was wondering if anyone had any pics. thanks.

Why do you keep picking these more advanced projects?? Can't you find a nice clean board and make a good solid pyramid bow, tiller it well and finish it nicely?? I don't get it. Also, I'd do a W splice at the very least, especially if it'll be un-backed.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: campx on October 12, 2013, 12:05:38 pm
Not exactly a Z handle, but it is skewed decently to allow for a more 'center shot'.

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2815/10109085463_2069c0a6ec_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/backinthecroft/10109085463/)
holmie 024 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/backinthecroft/10109085463/) by CampX (http://www.flickr.com/people/backinthecroft/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: ErictheViking on October 12, 2013, 01:13:28 pm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,27644.msg368851.html#msg368851
this one?
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: DavidV on October 12, 2013, 01:27:59 pm
has anyone got any pics of a bow with a z shaped handle i remember seeing one recently and wan't to use it on my next bow so was wondering if anyone had any pics. thanks.

Why do you keep picking these more advanced projects?? Can't you find a nice clean board and make a good solid pyramid bow, tiller it well and finish it nicely?? I don't get it. Also, I'd do a W splice at the very least, especially if it'll be un-backed.

x2, Ithink if you take your time on a simple build you'll have a great bow.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: wood_bandit99 on October 12, 2013, 03:34:40 pm
I dont know why you guys discourage people like this. It is worthless because he isnt and shouldnt listen. The only way anybody learns is from failing and seeing other peoples failures. Who cares? If it works it works. He asked a question, SO ANSWER IT!! He didnt ask for your oppinion if he is good enough to do it. If he really isnt, he'll find that out. And it really isnt THAT complicated so just let him do it. Now can we just tell him the answer to his question? Nobody wants to hear it and you will turn this site into something nobody wants to get on. Like you guys need to get over it because nobody cares. Now slayer, that sow's ear was probably one of the coolest bows ive seen if i remember right. Check that out.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: SLIMBOB on October 12, 2013, 08:30:23 pm
I think the advice to simplify has been spot on.  Thoreau was right.  Bow Slayer has made progress with his bows since he began, but he is obviously still working on getting the basics right.  I don't care what he builds and neither does anyone else really, but when you log onto this forum, advice is what you will get.  It's a given.  Some you will use and some you will not.  Taking that advice as some kind of personal attack seems to me to be....well, thin skinned to say the least.  Keep it simple until you master the simple, that's my advice.  If you decide to go another direction, good for you.  I was much the same way.  Scars to prove it.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: huisme on October 13, 2013, 01:07:42 am
As a coach and tutor I don't think it's a good idea to withhold advanced information any more than it's a good idea to advise a student/beginner to go over their head.

Do I think BowSlayer would benefit from slowing down and nailing the basics?
Do I think a soccer player needs to know how to pass before they learn to do a bicycle kick?
Do I think an artist needs to grasp concepts of form and value before learning to draw anime?

Yup. However, I'm not going to withhold the Z handle, the bicycle kick, or the anime practice for the benefit of my own principals. Instead I shall wait patiently for yet another student to get tired of making bad drawings, failing passes, and breaking bows. When they want and are willing to learn, and only then, will I expect my input to be respected on the same level as their opinion.

That being said, sow's ear : http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,42496.msg569409.html#msg569409 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,42496.msg569409.html#msg569409)
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: PatM on October 13, 2013, 02:08:44 am
A z handle is not complex bowyery. I'm not sure why you guys are making it out to be an advanced art form. Cosmetic configurations are just basic bowyery.
 Performance increasing attributes are things to put on hold but making a deliberate lopsided handle is not something to be cautioned against.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: adb on October 13, 2013, 02:17:00 am
Are we talking about a z handle, or a z splice? There seems to be two different conversations here. Regardless, I think young squirrel should master some basics first. Walk before yah run kinda stuff. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: huisme on October 13, 2013, 02:25:40 am
A z handle is not complex bowyery. I'm not sure why you guys are making it out to be an advanced art form. Cosmetic configurations are just basic bowyery.
 Performance increasing attributes are things to put on hold but making a deliberate lopsided handle is not something to be cautioned against.

Yeah, there's that too. My third shooter had a funky z handle. it's not like he's making a snaky five curve takedown sextuplaminate.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: BowSlayer on October 13, 2013, 05:34:08 am
Guys im looking to do a z handle not a z splice. Thanks for all those who have helped.  And I know im making a bit of a jump but if it breaks then I've broken a stick and learnt a lesson at the same time. If it works then ive also learnt something.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 13, 2013, 09:26:36 am
I dont know why you guys discourage people like this. It is worthless because he isnt and shouldnt listen. The only way anybody learns is from failing and seeing other peoples failures. Who cares? If it works it works. He asked a question, SO ANSWER IT!! He didnt ask for your oppinion if he is good enough to do it. If he really isnt, he'll find that out. And it really isnt THAT complicated so just let him do it. Now can we just tell him the answer to his question? Nobody wants to hear it and you will turn this site into something nobody wants to get on. Like you guys need to get over it because nobody cares. Now slayer, that sow's ear was probably one of the coolest bows ive seen if i remember right. Check that out.

And this reply was no more helpful than any others on this thread you deemed "wrong".



Squirrel nutz I dont have a clue what thread your talking about. Be careful cutting the Z out of a straight board and be sure you have ample support on the belly side of the grip, with fades, so it doesnt explode at the center. Cutting in a large Z creates mega run outs. SLOW DOWN AND THINK ahead all the time.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: Hrothgar on October 13, 2013, 10:09:07 am
Let us know how it turns out. Occasionally I have to remind myself what Paul Comstock said in one of his books: the handle should taper an inch or two past the fades, otherwise there is a chance the limb will break between the base of the handle and the fade.
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: blackhawk on October 13, 2013, 10:15:58 am
Here's one from the osage hater  :laugh: I know he's done one with a board and I think a hickory stave too?...lemme look for em

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=27644.0

Like pearly says...be careful how you do it...you need to get the fades right...you do not want to have any stress coming into the fade otherwise it'll wanna break from the extreme runout of the grain...
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: BowSlayer on October 13, 2013, 11:29:54 am
Thanks for the tips and advice guys on how I should go about it.  Do I make it before or after tillering?
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 13, 2013, 12:57:04 pm
Before
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: BowSlayer on October 13, 2013, 05:32:34 pm
Thanks
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: Josh B on October 13, 2013, 10:18:22 pm
I believe the offset handle  is a classy touch.  If it were me doing it, I would make the fades a little longer and wait till after tillering to cut out the handle.  That way it will be more stable on the tillering tree and the strain on the handle will be reduced to as low as it will be before  you make the cuts that will inevitably cause grain runoff.  However you do it, be sure to keep the handle plenty beefy so there's less chance of the runout causing problems.  Just my .02.  Josh
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: Cameroo on October 13, 2013, 11:15:00 pm
I've never tried that yet, but if I was to do it, I'd do just like Josh says.  Not that I'd be worried about it failing while tillering, but just to keep it stable on the tree. 
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: Onebowonder on October 15, 2013, 07:20:50 pm
I built 'Sow's Ear', ...so it's probably not tooo terribly advanced of a build! ;)  However; as with anything, there are compromises you make when doing a Z Handle like the one I did.  For one thing, the handle is super long.  SE's is 11 inches long.  ...and the fades are extra long too.  I don't have a picture of it right now, but the back of the handle HAS TO HAVE a stiff riser block glued to it to keep the run out you create when you cut out the handle from becoming a problem.

Also - the advice about not cutting out the handle till the very end so that it will sit in the tiller tree correctly is very WISE!  I did not wait and so I had to build a template shaped like the inverse of my Z-handle to set the bow into everytime I put it into the tillering tree.  :embarassed:  It worked, ...but waiting a bit would have been more ideal.


OneBow
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: Joec123able on October 15, 2013, 07:49:44 pm
Don't worry about it now onebowonder , BS says he quit making bows lol
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: mikekeswick on October 16, 2013, 04:52:53 am
I always shape my handle after the bow is braced to be sure of where the string will track (regardless of the handle shape).
Title: Re: Z handle?
Post by: bambule on October 16, 2013, 06:03:01 am
you mean this one?