Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: WoodMunkey157 on October 11, 2013, 03:33:25 pm

Title: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 11, 2013, 03:33:25 pm
Tillering on the long string- 63'' osage recurve. both limbs 31.5''. Right Side has more reflex at rest I think and a nice knot which is making things difficult. Right side is a little shorter and stronger and thus will be my bottom limb, am I correct in saying that?

Second picture there is a shim under the handle on the left side to balance the limbs level before I draw the bow. First photo the handle is just resting and this may or may not be affecting things.  I am afraid I am whip tillering this. Don't want to brace it until my tiller is looking spot on. Please lend your expert eyes.

Thanks in advance guys!


Here are some full draw pictures from both sides on page two. All the advice you guys gave me helped a ton. So much knowledge here! Thanks again...


Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: ssgtchad on October 11, 2013, 04:06:18 pm
It would help to see the bow unbraced so we can see the reflex you were talking about.  To me it looks like bow limbs are stiff in the middle thirds. And I wouldn't take anything off the left fade. But this is jmo.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: huisme on October 11, 2013, 04:55:33 pm
Having not seen it unbraced my best guess is that you have a lot of scraping to do in the outer limbs. From what we can see it looks like there are hinges at both fades.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: Jodocus on October 11, 2013, 05:11:15 pm
 :o weak inner limbs are evil... 
don't pull anymore!


(unless you have built in a strong deflex there)
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 11, 2013, 05:25:01 pm
thanks boys,
hopefully she is salvageable. I always seem to get it bending really heavily outve the fades. get the outer limb bending is what I am gathering...

here is the unbraced profile with a shim to level the handle, should I be  shimming it level?? feel like that helps give me a more realistic look at the bend of the limbs.


 
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: huisme on October 11, 2013, 06:08:30 pm
Yep, definitely get the outer limbs bending a lot more. I start my bend mostly in the outer limbs due to my older bows developing minor compression fractures in the fades as I shoot them.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: Poggins on October 11, 2013, 06:10:19 pm
Left limb just at the fade looks borderline hinge , it should look about like the right side , it's looking okay but you need to work from about mid limb out . I don't see much bending from the middle out .
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 11, 2013, 06:15:33 pm
for good measure(w/o a leveling shim then w/ a leveling shim as mentioned above^)
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 11, 2013, 06:20:27 pm
as I am removing meat off the belly I should be exercising the limb a lot to see improvement correct?

Will update in the next couple hours. Hang with me, thanks guys!
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 11, 2013, 09:55:23 pm
against my better judgment I braced the bow low. about 4 ish inches. the difference in the limbs is very noticeable to me at brace. Im sure you can see it. At this point is there something I can do to correct it ? I believe it was the result of a heavier amount of reflex on the knotted side that led to making a weak fade on the other side. Here are some updated photos. Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: echatham on October 11, 2013, 11:09:13 pm
that last pic is lookin better to me.  i have always heard, and i do, exercise the limbs by pulling to the draw length i have tillered to about 30-40 times before taking another picture.  pictures are great cause you can stare at it all night!  can't do that on the tree!
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: echatham on October 11, 2013, 11:10:06 pm
whats all the dark colored spots?
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: Joec123able on October 11, 2013, 11:18:16 pm
Your outter limbs are still way to stiff to much bend in the fade areas
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: SLIMBOB on October 12, 2013, 10:19:29 am
...The very reason I brace mine as soon as I can wrestle a string on it.  Braced 3-4 inches I can step back and look at the profile, check the bend with my straight edge, make both limbs match, and then pull it a little farther and check again.  It will be way heavy, but you will tiller away any wood that may take any set.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: adb on October 12, 2013, 10:43:01 am
Your outter limbs are still way to stiff to much bend in the fade areas

 ??? ??? The tips are reflexed, so they will always remain 'stiff.' I think the fades are bending nicely, as well. If that bow was mine, I'd get the mid-limbs working.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: SLIMBOB on October 12, 2013, 11:34:42 am
+1 adb's assessment.  Check your bend with a 4" straight edge.  I think you will see the fade area bending more than the rest.  Get the mids bending evenly with the inner limb.  Last 4 inches or so wont bend.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-
Post by: BowEd on October 12, 2013, 11:56:44 am
You are very close WM157.It's looking pretty good.Just some minor scrapes here and there.This is the slow down touchy time.Excercise it well between wood removal taking it to your draw weight.At brace measure at egual intervals the space from the belly to the string on each limb first.Your bump on your left limb can be confusing [look at the belly line in that area and not the back]but it's still very close.Looks like a really nice future bow to me.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 16, 2013, 01:58:39 pm
Here is a look at the final tiller, she pulls 56-58lbs at 26.5", right in the vicinity I wanted her. Thanks again for all the wise words and guidance! I really do appreciate the help.  No cosmetic work on this one yet but ill update that later! hope to take my first deer this season;)
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: Blaflair2 on October 16, 2013, 02:02:00 pm
Sweet. I'm working on a HHB that looks very similar
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: adb on October 16, 2013, 03:06:20 pm
That looks pretty decent! Your mid-limbs are working now. Does the top limb have a bit of prop twist?
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 16, 2013, 04:03:46 pm
yes, top limb has a prop twist. dry heated the tips and limbs quite a bit and didn't want to fuss with it too much! Im happy with how she turned out. only my 5th or 6th bow and first crack at flipped tips. All in all I am learning more and more and still loving it!
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: adb on October 16, 2013, 04:19:03 pm
A little bit of prop twist is actually not horrible, and usually doesn't effect accuracy. It will be twisting towards the weak side if you want to correct it a bit. Seems like you have quite a bit of weight to work with. How's your string alignment?
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 16, 2013, 04:33:04 pm
abd- can you explain your last comment a bit? Are you saying to correct the limb twist I should remove wood from the stronger side of the twisted limb?

The string tracks just left of center which lines up nicely with my arrow shelf.

Here is a video of it being shot.
http://youtu.be/3MRPRtxPl1s  (http://youtu.be/3MRPRtxPl1s)

Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: adb on October 16, 2013, 07:33:30 pm
The limb will twist towards the weaker side. So... if you're looking down the limb from the nock end with the bow braced, and the limb is twisting to the left and the string is out of alignment also to the left, you can remove wood just from the right side of the limb. Leave the bow braced, and take some scrapes. Check for realignment, and continue until it corrects. Be careful you don't get everything else out of whack, or you don't go too far. Go easy. Sometimes it doesn't take much.

Also, if you can, get someone else to pull your bow on the tiller tree and step way over to the side and look at the bow from the side as it flexes... both sides... and you can check string alignment and prop twist this way too. Sometimes prop twist doesn't show up until full draw, and if this happens, it's not too big a deal. It really doesn't effect the bow much. If you see prop twist at brace, that's a different story, and you should fix it.

I've had some bows, especially self bows, that I could not eliminate a bit of prop twist, no matter what I did. They still shot wonderfully.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 17, 2013, 12:46:17 am
abd-that helped, got it running dead center now. thanks ;D
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: adb on October 17, 2013, 12:53:14 am
No problem! Glad I could help.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: H Rhodes on October 17, 2013, 01:51:13 am
That tiller looks pretty doggone good to these eyes!  How does it shoot?
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 17, 2013, 05:05:07 am
^ thanks!
Shoots to my liking;) fast n quite I think. Check the video link out up above.
Thanks to all who took a look or left a cmt.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: TimPotter on October 17, 2013, 05:43:41 am
On page one you mention being disappointed on your 1st real braceing. I will sometimes use a ruler an check the distance from belly to string on both limbs at the fades, midlimb then about 8 inches down from the nocks, prior to any drawing. Also even when using a long string and pulling the limbs down as you did in your 1st pics, you are already putting more stress on the bow than a low brace. But all in all it appears you turned this one out rather nicely.

How much reflex did it retain after full draw pics?
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 17, 2013, 06:42:16 am
^ I was  a bit disappointed at the initial low brace. It looked a bit whip tillered to me if I am using that term correctly. It didn't however appear to be a problem in the end nor did it affect performance.

I am sure had I measured from the fades and midlimbs on the belly to the string, each limb would have recorded different heights.

It ended up with a bit of a positive tiller on the top limb which actually shoots to my liking very  much.

After unbracing it retains about 2" of reflex . Closer to 3" after resting for a while.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: Pappy on October 17, 2013, 07:00:07 am
Turned out nice,love the flipped tips,I do that to almost all of mine,seems to make them smoother to draw and just looks cool to boot,can't wait to see it all dolled up and in BOM.  ;) :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: mullet on October 17, 2013, 07:05:56 am
When you're tillering a R/D you want that whip tillered look. The last part of your wood past the outer curve remains stiff and shouldn't break over till full draw. But, there is a fine line you have to maintain so the tips do not break over too much. You are not after an elliptical tiller but more of a "D" shape starting out of the fades, where everything breaks over and lines up at Full Draw, that is while you have to be carefull with removing too much wood at the Fades. That bow looks fast and smooth to me, excellent job.


Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on October 17, 2013, 09:55:43 am
^Thanks guys:

I always used to gaze at pictures of flipped tips and await the day I felt skilled enough to try some! I think I will continue to incorporate them into my builds, really enjoy the look and feel to 'em.
Title: Re: Tiller Check-Finished tillering!!! full draw updated page 2
Post by: SLIMBOB on October 17, 2013, 09:59:20 am
The bow looks great, the socks and flip flops....not so much.  :)