Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: jpschersch on August 16, 2013, 02:29:31 pm

Title: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 16, 2013, 02:29:31 pm
Good afternoon all!  This is my first post on here and I'm really new to all this, so bear with me.

I've been looking at A LOT of videos and walkthroughs/guides related to building a self bow.  I've decided to start this experience using a Red Oak board from Lowe's and probably a Black Walnut grip extention....but not sure on that wood, we'll see.  I purchased a few tools (Rasp, C-Clamps, Vise Grip, File) and 2 Red Oak boards that have what I think are decent grain to start with.  I looked at Poor Folk Bows site and he backed with Drywall tape (which I saw BoarriorBows do as well) but I'm not sure I like the look/feel of what it would be (maybe someone can talk me into/out of it?).  I also saw a lot of threads regarding using another wood backing (like hickory or bamboo...) but my main question on that is how/when do you put it on the bow....before you cut? after you cut? after you tiller? before? Just not sure on that process...With Silk or Linen cloth as backing, you do that after tillering, right?   Anyway, I know these are probably easy questions, but as a complete newbie (remember how I JUST bought my first rasp? lol..) any info is appreciated!

Thanks!
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: autologus on August 16, 2013, 03:11:34 pm
Don't use drywall tape, use silk or linen instead.  You apply the cloth backings after tillering, these type backing are for safety purposes and do not affect the tiller to any appreciable degree and they will not add any poundage to the draw weight.  Bubby has a great build-a-long for making a board bow in the link below.  You can follow it using just hand tools just fine, the dimensions will work well with red oak.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.0.html)

Grady
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 16, 2013, 04:52:44 pm
Thanks for the link, I'll have to take a look. 

Can you stain the bow after backing with linen or silk? 

Thanks,
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bushboy on August 16, 2013, 05:21:32 pm
Not to disagree with grady ,I put the backing before.in my mind it may prevent a failure juring the tillering process as I have broken many bows at that stage.not sure about the stain ,but you could prob dye it or paint.
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: autologus on August 16, 2013, 05:46:19 pm
Putting the backing on after floor tiller and before final tiller like Bushboy said is probably the safest way to do it.  He definitely has more experience that me so I will defer to him on that.

Grady
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bushboy on August 16, 2013, 05:56:23 pm
Grady I defintely have more experience "BREAKING" bows!lol!
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Knapper on August 16, 2013, 06:08:09 pm
JP,
 Welcome to PA. you have found the greatest well of knowledge. There are many here who love to share and help! Love to see the bow when your done :)
Knapper
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 16, 2013, 11:44:07 pm
So, floor tiller, back with linen or silk, then finish tillering? Then if I want to stain it, do I just stain over the linen or cloth? Or how do I do that? Sorry for repeat question, just wondering.

Thanks!
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 16, 2013, 11:52:14 pm
Oh, one other question. When I glue on a riser (that's what it's called right? The piece that makes it thicker and more solid in the handle), what kinds of woods are recommended? I was thinking black walnut but not able to find it currently. Basically looking for wood I can find at Home Depot, lowes, or wherever is easy to find ;)
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Weylin on August 16, 2013, 11:56:25 pm
The riser can be pretty much anything. Pick a wood that you like the look of and that contrasts or compliments the red oak.
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 17, 2013, 01:48:46 am
Alright cool! Anybody who's done a red oak board bow have any recommendations on what looks good?

Thank
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bushboy on August 17, 2013, 10:02:38 am
Walnut would be cool
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Maxspin on August 17, 2013, 05:25:15 pm
I have made the risers out of more red oak. First couple of bows are a learning process.
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 18, 2013, 02:22:50 am
Very true statement. So what you guys are saying is it doesn't really matter what my riser wood is.  Right?

Thanks.
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bushboy on August 18, 2013, 11:13:57 am
The riser doesn't bend so the choice is yours anything will do.eastern red cedar would look good!
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 18, 2013, 11:25:14 am
Thanks all! Hopefully I can get something started so I can show pics! :)

Thanks
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on August 18, 2013, 01:04:23 pm
Alright cool! Anybody who's done a red oak board bow have any recommendations on what looks good?

Thank
Joe

Duct tape makes a nice grip. I like bend in the handle bows.. so I don't make risers.
Duct tape doesn't look nice however... so electrical tape or jute cord works great too.
ERc is some pretty stuff.
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Weylin on August 18, 2013, 03:14:17 pm
Really? duct tape? out of all the things you can make a grip with...  :-\
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bubby on August 18, 2013, 04:33:26 pm
Really? duct tape? out of all the things you can make a grip with...  :-\





that is exactly what I thought, look in the yellow pages for cabinet shops in your area, they have lot's of end pcs and scraps that they have to haul off or burn, they will prolly give it to you
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 18, 2013, 08:49:28 pm
Bubby, you talking about the black walnut when you say that?

Thanks
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 18, 2013, 09:21:41 pm
There's info on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Mad Max on August 18, 2013, 09:23:07 pm
JP,
 Welcome to PA. you have found the greatest well of knowledge. There are many here who love to share and help! Love to see the bow when your done :)
Knapper

Amen on that ;)
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bubby on August 19, 2013, 12:40:41 am
Bubby, you talking about the black walnut when you say that?

Thanks
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bubby on August 19, 2013, 12:43:22 am
you should get black walnut, cherry, maple and more
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: kevinnator11 on August 19, 2013, 08:39:48 pm
I used red oak for my riser at first since I didn't expect it to work out.  I started playing/paying with the exotic woods after I got the hang of tillering.  Doesn't hurt your feelings as bad if it breaks when you only have $10 in it.  You can get silk at fabric stores at a decent price and back a lot of bows with it. 
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 20, 2013, 09:40:07 am
Awesome! Thanks everyone!  I'll post progress pics once I make some progress ;)

Thanks
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: paoliguy on August 20, 2013, 01:49:48 pm
If you want to dress up your handle a bit get a piece of thin cedar at Lowes then cut your red oak left over piece in half, sandwich the cedar in between the oak pieces and you'll get a cool stripe in your handle. The thin slats of cedar for closet linings work great and they are cheap.
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 21, 2013, 10:12:15 am
So put the thin Cedar plank (what, 10 inches?) where the handle will go, and then put on top of that another piece of Red Oak board (same size...10 inches? or other), then fade it? Will the Cedar really show through?
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: paoliguy on August 21, 2013, 10:37:46 am
I like to put a thin piece of oak onto the belly then a thin piece of cedar on top of that and then top it off with another piece of oak. Depending on your finish it will show through quite nicely. I don't have any pictures and I can't figure out how to post my sketch I just made  :o
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: IdahoMatt on August 21, 2013, 10:53:20 am
Another way to gussy up bows when you are gluing wood together is to get a veneering kit at a hobby store.  Or just find wood for veneering.  You can sandwich thin strips to get a custom look for not too much $ ;D.  I learned that building guitars.  It really looks clean when you use light and dark wood together.  Especially on tip overlays.  Have fun with you fist build.  Get ready to be infected with something that only has one cure.   >:D
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 21, 2013, 12:56:18 pm
Paoliguy, if you get a chance to put up a pic of what you're talking about (or anyone for that matter), I'd truly appreciate it. I'm still slightly confused about what you mean.  Also, for Tip overlays, all I do for that is put a pice of bone or other color wood on the tip and file/sand it down to match? 
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: paoliguy on August 21, 2013, 01:43:10 pm
here's an attached sketch, for some reason this whole picture thing is eluding me
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 21, 2013, 02:11:25 pm
I like that idea but went to lowes and they didn't have cedar planks like that. I did however find a cool darker red oak plank and another cool ring patterned red oak board that I'm gonna try. Might look cool. Might look dumb. Who knows till I get it on there, lol. Recommend glueing them separately or at same time?

Thanks
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: paoliguy on August 21, 2013, 03:32:13 pm
There's only one way to find out huh? Good luck, I bet it'll come out looking good - plus inspiration to start the second one!
Mark
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: skarhand on August 21, 2013, 03:37:41 pm
I don't think there is such a thing as an ugly wood combination. It is all beautiful, and contrasting it just makes it even better.

Just don't mix plaid and striped wood. :)
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 21, 2013, 04:09:51 pm
Ha, thanks for the advice :) 

Now when glueing it, do I glue the thin piece to the board...let it dry then glue the thicker piece over it?  Or do I just put glue on all surfaces and glue all 3 together?  Thanks.

Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bubby on August 21, 2013, 07:18:22 pm
just glue it all together at the same time
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: paoliguy on August 22, 2013, 02:59:22 pm
And NEVER use white wood after labor day! .... or something like that..
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: dmc on August 22, 2013, 03:15:15 pm
And NEVER use white wood after labor day! .... or something like that..

Now that's funny!
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 22, 2013, 11:16:20 pm
Haha. Well crap, I better start before the 2nd!  ;D
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 23, 2013, 03:17:06 pm
Anyone mind telling me if the measurements I'm gonna use are good or do you all (with lots more experience) have any recommendations?  My plan is to use my bow for hunting.  I'm thinking roughly 50#, 28".

I bought a 1x3 and will rip it down to 2" (the 1x2 i bought isn't actually 2 inches...) and it will be 68" long.  Going to put a 9-10 inch riser on in the center. 2 inch fade off the riser blocks...I will start the taper on the bow 2.5" from the end of the riser block on each side..drawing a straight line to the half inch tips. (its all confusing being typed out, but I think maybe I'm making some sense?  lol...). 

For those of you with the experience....do my measurements make sense? And if so, are they measurements you'd recommend?  If not, PLEASE give some advise to a newbie :P  I wanna get started soon!

Thanks
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Ifrit617 on August 23, 2013, 04:59:05 pm
your over thinking this in my opinion. Follow bubby's build along for a simple pyramid bow and you will be in good shape.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.0.html

Jon
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 23, 2013, 05:15:56 pm
Thanks for the link Ifrit.  I took a look at it and will go more in depth when I have some more time.  I did notice that a few of his measurements were similar to mine...so maybe I'm on the right track.  Any other thoughts from anyone else are always appreciated!

I guess my main concern currently is the length of the bow...what kind of difference will it make hunting if I have it 68", 70", or as Bubby has it, 66"?

Thanks,
Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Ifrit617 on August 23, 2013, 05:44:45 pm
whats your draw length? If its 28" or under 66" is plenty. Bub has a 29" draw, so those dimensions must work for that as well. 68" will be slightly smoother, but other than that you don't gain anything over the shorter bow.

Jon
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 23, 2013, 05:46:26 pm
What do you mean by smoother?
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bubby on August 23, 2013, 05:48:04 pm
if you have good grain the difference will be size, the longer you go the more wood, longer a little thicker maybe a hair wider at 70", I think they are all fine, but I wouldn't go over 68" ttt
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bubby on August 23, 2013, 05:50:35 pm
whats your draw length? If its 28" or under 66" is plenty. Bub has a 29" draw, so those dimensions must work for that as well. 68" will be slightly smoother, but other than that you don't gain anything over the shorter bow.

Jon


x2 i'm building a bow for my nieces boyfriend he's 6'6" and i'll probably tiller it to 31" and I was gonna go 70" with that one
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Ifrit617 on August 23, 2013, 06:02:18 pm
the string angle between the tips and the string will be less. This will prevent the bow from pulling into stack as your draw increases, causing the bow to feel like it is heavier than it actually is. But you still haven't answered my question, what is your draw length?

Jon
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 23, 2013, 06:16:26 pm
I think its 28....but I guess I'm not sure....as I said before I'm a complete newbie with any of this...sorry for the dumb questions  :-\

Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: Ifrit617 on August 23, 2013, 06:24:19 pm
okay. Then 66" should be plenty.


Jon
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 23, 2013, 11:43:22 pm
whats your draw length? If its 28" or under 66" is plenty. Bub has a 29" draw, so those dimensions must work for that as well. 68" will be slightly smoother, but other than that you don't gain anything over the shorter bow.

Jon

What did you mean by smoother though? I'm thinking 66 or 68 but I guess I need to figure out my actual draw length huh.
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 23, 2013, 11:55:12 pm
I'd say 27-28 is what I am. I took my wingspan, minus 15, divided by 2. That about right?
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: dbb on August 24, 2013, 07:13:55 am
I find it more accurate (if you dont have the possibility to measure on an actual bow) to hold your arms straight forward with palms together and measure from just under the hollow at the throat to tips of the longfingers.
That way type of body matters less.   I myself probably have organgutan somewhere in the genes  :o
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 25, 2013, 01:27:55 am
Ok, I'm now ripped the board to exactly 2" thick. Only question before I glue riser on and start shaving...66" or 68"...which will be more powerful/better/smoother shot/ etc....remember I'm very new so maybe my thoughts on length is wrong...any advise before I decide is much appreciated.

Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bubby on August 25, 2013, 01:51:37 am
go 68" tip to tip, that will give you  66" bow ntn, that will give you a safety newbie clause, still be able to hit 50#
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 26, 2013, 12:57:45 am
Safety newbie clause? Huh? Lol
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 28, 2013, 12:54:13 am
Well, I started tonight. With my schedule, it's gonna be slow going. I guess that's ok with this kind of project since wood won't go anywhere ;). So far I've cut to 68" and glued on the 9" riser at center. That'll sit till it dries. Once I get further I'll post some pics.

Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: jpschersch on August 29, 2013, 10:01:25 am
I have my riser glued on and I like the colors on it.  I have drawn out my design and I was just trying to confirm my thoughts that when I draw the fade line in the riser...I should leave myself roughly 5" for my hand?  or is there a different length that would work better? Just wondering.

As always, thanks.

Joe
Title: Re: **Beginner** Starting a Red Oak Board Bow
Post by: bubby on August 29, 2013, 01:33:03 pm
all the layout is in herehttp://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.0.html